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Old 30-09-2015, 15:29   #1
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Introduction and advice - buying first new, old boat

Hi,

I'm new to these forums, and want to say thank you for the warm welcome (they look like they've helped a lot of people!).

I've recently been getting more into sailing, and now I would really like to buy a second hand boat to cater to my enthusiasm (recently finished doing day skipper course in the Solent).

My budget is very low, however I've come across an old Fellowship 27 (I think it's Dutch), that appears to be very well maintained, and has had lots of work done to it over the years. The asking price is 9000 euros.

My question is, is there anything I should be watching out for when buying a boat, or this boat specifically? Naturally I will have a survey done to check it over, and I've read around a bit and got a book on what to look for when buying a used boat, however if anyone has additional advice to offer, it'd be very much appreciated!

Also, does anyone have experience with a Fellowship 27? I've read that it's very heavy and not the fastest on the water, which is fine with me, but are there any other big negatives I should be aware of?

Thanks for your help!
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Old 30-09-2015, 18:36   #2
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Re: Introduction and advice - buying first new, old boat

find 3 boats, go see them, then decided on which to survey
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Old 01-10-2015, 05:13   #3
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Re: Introduction and advice - buying first new, old boat

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Alisonkls.
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Old 01-10-2015, 14:14   #4
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Re: Introduction and advice - buying first new, old boat

Hi, Alison,

There's a thread on one of the CF forums called "Surveying 101". See if you can find it, it's full of suggestions.

When we've gone to have a look at boats for friends, we look for "evidence". Water stains where they shouldn't be [signs of ingress. also around fittings, you don't want to see rust]; condition of engine space and bilge [water, fuel, oil tracks].

If she has cored decks, moisture in the core can be a nasty problem.

If you see the boat before the surveyor, you can make up a list of things you're specially interested for him/her to check.

There's a website called "sailboatdata.com" that you could look up the boat on.


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Old 01-10-2015, 14:36   #5
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Re: Introduction and advice - buying first new, old boat

Howdy Alison and Welcome Aboard CF!

I don't have any personal experience with the Fellowship 27, but a quick Google Custom Search of CF shows a few mentions of that kind of boat, including one statement from a CF member about going across an ocean. Take a look for the relevant threads in this list:
Fellowship 27 - Google Search

And, I am sure you will have a lot of questions in the future. We all do. This forum is a wealth of information, but often it is time consuming to find answers that may be buried in lengthy threads that don't have a good title, and discussions tend to drift.

So, here is the method I use whenever I have a question or something makes me curious and I want to see what the folks at CF have said on a topic.

____________

Looking for Quick Answers?

This is the best and fastest method I have found to the answers I seek here.
Since you are relatively new to the forum, here is my favorite friendly forum search tip: Look at the menu bar on the forum pages for the drop down "Search" menu. Click on that to drop down a list of search functions. From that drop down menu select the GOOGLE CUSTOM search feature (the second box down) and then enter several different descriptive or key terms for your topic of interest. That will do a Custom google search of ONLY this site and it is likely to find answers to your questions or results for you. Note: this is VERY different from using the regular forum search box or field (which I never use because of poor search results). Also note, this is NOT found if you use the CF mobile app. It IS found if you use a web browser such as Safari, IE, Firefox, etc.

Note: The ordinary "search" field on this forum has yielded less helpful results for me when I perform searches. That is why I prefer and suggest the use of the alternative "Google Custom Search" instead. I see a very clear and big difference and find the Google Custom Search much easier for scanning (with my eyes) threads for relevant comments and information.

I am confident if you spend some time trying different search terms (key words) using this method, you will find much advice and many tips.
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Old 02-10-2015, 11:18   #6
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Re: Introduction and advice - buying first new, old boat

Thanks for the quick feedback. I've written to the broker to arrange a viewing, and now I'm just trying to find a suitable time to go visit.

I'll keep you posted with how it goes
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Old 04-10-2015, 20:02   #7
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Re: Introduction and advice - buying first new, old boat

Hello! Where are you located and what kind of plans for sailing do you have? I don't know anything about the Fellowship 27 specifically, but a quick look at what I can find online shows a boat with features that I like. We don't see many of those in my part of the world. I like that the keel looks to be molded into the hull (stronger.) I like that the rudder is hinged at the base (stronger.) It looks to be roomy inside. Of course you will ask about the age of the sails and rigging. And a good piece of advice is to remember you are buying an engine as much as a boat. (I learned that the hard way!) If the engine will need to be replaced that will drop the value of the boat dramatically. If the boat has been well-maintained that is a big plus and a sign you are on the right track. Since I am guessing you are in Europe you might check "sailboat-cruising.com" which is a site made by a gentleman from England I believe and he has references to European boats that we don't see often over here! Good luck! It is a lot of fun when you make a good buy on a good boat that you love!
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Old 05-10-2015, 08:59   #8
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Re: Introduction and advice - buying first new, old boat

Hi Don,

I'm located in Hamburg, Germany, and there are a few of Fellowship 27s on the market, so they appear to be pretty common here. One of the things I really like about it is that it has a very shallow draft (1.1m), so it can be taken just about anywhere.

As for use, I'd mostly be staying in the local area around the Elbe river, and up to the North Sea around the local islands here. Then, next year, I'd like to make a trip through the French canals (shallow draft is a big plus here!), and down to the Med for a long break. At some point in the future, I'd want to end up in the UK. So a channel crossing would be in order, but I don't plan to cross the Atlantic in it

I went to visit the boat yesterday, and from my amateur eye it appeared to be in a fair condition... could use a bit of tidying up - the non-slip coating looks very used, for example - but overall it was clear that a lot of time had been spent on the boat, and so it's generally well-cared for, it was completely dry inside and I saw no signs of water damage.

One thing that I wonder if I should worry about is the engine, which is very old. It's a Farymann 18HP that uses direct cooling, which I have read can cause serious corrosive damage to the engine over time. It started from cold without a splutter, however, and it ran for almost an hour sounding good. Question is, how long is it likely to last?

Does anyone have any experience/advice on this?
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Old 07-10-2015, 16:31   #9
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Re: Introduction and advice - buying first new, old boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisonkls View Post
Hi Don,

I'm located in Hamburg, Germany, and there are a few of Fellowship 27s on the market, so they appear to be pretty common here. One of the things I really like about it is that it has a very shallow draft (1.1m), so it can be taken just about anywhere.

As for use, I'd mostly be staying in the local area around the Elbe river, and up to the North Sea around the local islands here. Then, next year, I'd like to make a trip through the French canals (shallow draft is a big plus here!), and down to the Med for a long break. At some point in the future, I'd want to end up in the UK. So a channel crossing would be in order, but I don't plan to cross the Atlantic in it

I went to visit the boat yesterday, and from my amateur eye it appeared to be in a fair condition... could use a bit of tidying up - the non-slip coating looks very used, for example - but overall it was clear that a lot of time had been spent on the boat, and so it's generally well-cared for, it was completely dry inside and I saw no signs of water damage.

One thing that I wonder if I should worry about is the engine, which is very old. It's a Farymann 18HP that uses direct cooling, which I have read can cause serious corrosive damage to the engine over time. It started from cold without a splutter, however, and it ran for almost an hour sounding good. Question is, how long is it likely to last?

Does anyone have any experience/advice on this?
Sounds like a great plan, and it looks like the Fellowship may be a good boat for it. The engine is key though, you'll be using it a lot. Has the engine been rebuilt? How easy is it to get parts for it and how expensive are they? An old diesel with raw water cooling, no matter how good an engine it was in its day, is suspect, unless it has been rebuilt (and there is some proof of that.) And even if it is rebuilt, getting parts for old engines could be nearly impossible. I learned that the HARD way! Personally I'd wait and keep looking for a good boat that ALSO has a fresh diesel engine with a heat exchanger.

edit: one more thing, I have been to Germany but not France and have not seen their canals. (SURE would like to though!) Do you need to have a mast that can be brought down easily (tabernacle?) to clear bridges or other obstructions?
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Old 07-10-2015, 16:41   #10
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Re: Introduction and advice - buying first new, old boat

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Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
Sounds like a great plan, and it looks like the Fellowship may be a good boat for it. The engine is key though, you'll be using it a lot. Has the engine been rebuilt? How easy is it to get parts for it and how expensive are they? An old diesel with raw water cooling, no matter how good an engine it was in its day, is suspect, unless it has been rebuilt (and there is some proof of that.) And even if it is rebuilt, getting parts for old engines could be nearly impossible. I learned that the HARD way! Personally I'd wait and keep looking for a good boat that ALSO has a fresh diesel engine with a heat exchanger.

edit: one more thing, I have been to Germany but not France and have not seen their canals. (SURE would like to though!) Do you need to have a mast that can be brought down easily (tabernacle?) to clear bridges or other obstructions?
OK now that I look again it looks like most Fellowships (and maybe most boats in Europe?) are equipped with a tabernacle mast step, which you probably already knew...
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