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Old 06-06-2016, 23:27   #61
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Re: Interesting Day on a Swan 60

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So I guess as usual its complicated. But the point is that a boat can afford to have lighter D/L if it is longer, with no loss of seaworthiness, and will be much faster since it's both lighter AND has a longer waterline.
There are more aspects to consider as you say. I'd like to point one which been omitted allmost completely. It's waterplane area/displacement which predicts a lot of accelerations..

BR Teddy
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Old 06-06-2016, 23:30   #62
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Re: Interesting Day on a Swan 60

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There are more aspects to consider as you say. I'd like to point one which been omitted allmost completely. It's waterplane area/displacement which predicts a lot of accelerations..

BR Teddy
Excellent point, and of course is at the heart of the lesser motion comfort of boats with flatter bottoms.

We did talk about pounding, however, which is somewhat related to this.
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Old 07-06-2016, 01:32   #63
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Re: Interesting Day on a Swan 60

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It is genuine progress when you take the same tonnage of GRP from a Contessa and spread it out into a longer, faster boat which is no less seaworthy. I would prefer a 43 foot Beneteau, to a 32' Contessa, for the Horn
Are these displacement calculations pre or post keel loss?


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Old 07-06-2016, 01:40   #64
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Re: Interesting Day on a Swan 60

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Are these displacement calculations pre or post keel loss?


Tee hee. OK, everybody just pile on

I should have written -- after a good survey and correction of any structural problems.

Or maybe I should have said "Jeanneau" instead of "Bene", since Jeanneaus have not had the same problems.
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Old 07-06-2016, 03:50   #65
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Re: Interesting Day on a Swan 60

By the way, the boat which I spent the day on last week, is currently in the leading position in the race, with 433 miles to go.

Go Team Finland!!!!
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Old 07-06-2016, 05:50   #66
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Re: Interesting Day on a Swan 60

[QUOTE=Dockhead;2138224]
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Yes, but I specifically said a LARGER boat with the same tonnage as the Contessa. I completely agree with you on recent production 32' boats, and I would no more take one of those down there than you would.

As to the 40-odd foot recent production boats -- as I posted my previous, I though "I should have wrote, provided the rudder system has been thoroughly checked and corrected as necessary" .

And I guess that highlights a different issue -- the Contessa is a quality boat built with plenty of strength for any conditions. Don't need to worry about its rudder, keel, or anything other part of the structure, even if the boat is decades old. The 40-odd foot recent production boat is theoretically equal in seaworthiness, but any engineering failure in an appendage or other structural element will negate that.

So I guess as usual its complicated. But the point is that a boat can afford to have lighter D/L if it is longer, with no loss of seaworthiness, and will be much faster since it's both lighter AND has a longer waterline. The Contessa's big minus for the Horn is that although the boat is surprisingly fast for her size, the key phrase here is "for her size". I would not want to hanging around Cape Horn trying to slowly get around it, while the next low pressure system comes screaming around the Southern Ocean -- I would want to make miles and get around. Speed is not irrelevant at all. So as I said, give me in fact neither of these choices, but my own boat, or something bigger, please, for Cape Horn duty.
Well I guess we do agree. I know you can take the Contessa's material and build a much larger and lighter boat that could be as seaworthy or more seaworthy than the Contessa, I'm totally bought into light and strong construction but light and well built means high cost as light, strong and cheap don't go together.
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Old 07-06-2016, 06:28   #67
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Re: Interesting Day on a Swan 60

[QUOTE=robert sailor;2138357]
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Well I guess we do agree. I know you can take the Contessa's material and build a much larger and lighter boat that could be as seaworthy or more seaworthy than the Contessa, I'm totally bought into light and strong construction but light and well built means high cost as light, strong and cheap don't go together.
We do agree.

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Old 07-06-2016, 07:36   #68
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Re: Interesting Day on a Swan 60

[QUOTE=robert sailor;2138357]
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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post

Well I guess we do agree. I know you can take the Contessa's material and build a much larger and lighter boat that could be as seaworthy or more seaworthy than the Contessa, I'm totally bought into light and strong construction but light and well built means high cost as light, strong and cheap don't go together.
Robert, i doubt very much that with just material you can build much larger and be more seaworthy than a C32 , is not just material, Contessas are a rare blend of brilliant hull design and weight distribution, kind of a master design in a small boat size, with a 155 AVS ,thats it....the other side is well know in the sailing comunity....this litle boat remind me of other well trusty designs , like the Albin Vega 27...
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Old 07-06-2016, 14:15   #69
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Re: Interesting Day on a Swan 60

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Polux you still are avoiding my question, which 32 ft modern entry level boat would you sail the southern ocean in?? Or would you rather be in a C 32? Never mind the money, assume the C 32 is in great condition......answer??
I am not avoiding your question. I would not sail around the horn on a 32ft boats, C32 or otherwise but if I had to chose a 30/33ft boat for offshore sailing I would chose a Pogo 30 or a Django 9.80. Both boats have an excellent stability, including dynamic stability and are from a family of hulls that has given excellent results in offshore sailing.

Both boats are like huge mini racers (6.5m) and we all know the seaworthiness qualities of those little boats (that have circumnavigated the globe several times and at least one by the horn). The Pogo 30 and the Django 9.80 are much more seaworthy than a mini racer basically because having the same type of hull they are much bigger and heavier.

I am not saying that a Contessa 32 is more or less seaworthy than those boats (hard to tell) but the Contessa 32 is just not my type of boat so I would not be interested in sailing in one.

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Old 07-06-2016, 15:43   #70
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Re: Interesting Day on a Swan 60

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By the way, the boat which I spent the day on last week, is currently in the leading position in the race, with 433 miles to go.

Go Team Finland!!!!

Team Finland still in the lead!!!!! But with the Russian crewed boat hot on their heels, less than a mile behind. What a thrilling battle. The Russian boat is named "Bronnenosets" -- battleship -- as in Bronnenosets Potemkin -- Battleship Potemkin. How appropriate Don't f*** with the Russians. Hitler found that out. But the Finns, unlike the Germans, did OK.

The Finnish boat (as I know now from the commodore of the sponsoring yacht club, who spent the evening before the race on my boat) hit a rock, and lost all electrical power in the first stage!!! What a recovery! 350 miles to go.

I don't care about sports, don't root for this or that football team, don't follow cricket, but here I'm sitting on pins and needles. The crew of that boat is a wonderful bunch of guys and how great if they will win. Will I stay up all night watching this?
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Old 09-06-2016, 01:29   #71
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Re: Interesting Day on a Swan 60

Who won?
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Old 09-06-2016, 01:49   #72
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Re: Interesting Day on a Swan 60

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Yes, the Swan 60 is a lovely boat even if very much race oriented.

Look at all those people barfing over the side....
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Old 09-06-2016, 02:02   #73
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Re: Interesting Day on a Swan 60

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Who won?
Not over yet!

Very dramatic race. The Finnish boat made wild excursions from the rhumbline, almost to the coast of Sweden, then gybed and went almost to the coast of Poland, allowing the pan-European boat to actually take the lead, but then ending up just one mile ahead of them.

Now an intense duel between the Finnish and Pan-European boats with 70 miles to go. They are passing Ruegen and now it's really a pure speed race. The slightest mistake and the race could change hands. I can't even imagine the pressure the crew must be under -- the two leading boats in sight of one another.

Go Team Finland!!
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Old 09-06-2016, 06:58   #74
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Re: Interesting Day on a Swan 60

[QUOTE=neilpride;2138427]
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Robert, i doubt very much that with just material you can build much larger and be more seaworthy than a C32 , is not just material, Contessas are a rare blend of brilliant hull design and weight distribution, kind of a master design in a small boat size, with a 155 AVS ,thats it....the other side is well know in the sailing comunity....this litle boat remind me of other well trusty designs , like the Albin Vega 27...
Couldn't agree more
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Old 10-07-2016, 19:20   #75
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Re: Interesting Day on a Swan 60

Other than having a squad of experienced sailors at your command, i dont see a reason for sailing on a 60' DAY-CRUISER



OOPS, LET ME REPHRASE

CALM DAY / INNER WATERS CRUISER


My ideal Swan is any S&S design
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