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Old 26-04-2015, 10:35   #91
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Re: Interesting 'bluewater' test !! RTW

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Originally Posted by Cap Erict3 View Post
...

I do not personally know any sailors that have flipped a cruising multi or any that have done a 360 in a mono and not disabled the boat.
....
For disabling the boat you mean losing the mast? Even with the mast broken one can only jury rig, like that 22ft mini that had done half of a circumnavigation after having lost the mast on a capsize.

But that it is not true that the mast is always lost on an inversion or on a 360 roll, it is rare but I have read about several monohull boats that survived 360 rolls without losing the masts. Besides for a multihull to invert there is no need of a roll. 90 will do. On a monohull most will invert at about 120 and both can come up without a complete roll (coming up on the same side).

Multihulls can also invert and come out with the mast in one piece. That's rare but it happens. Here you have a case, the brand new Gunboat G4 on its first capsize:

https://vimeo.com/125378004
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Old 26-04-2015, 10:55   #92
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Re: Interesting 'bluewater' test !! RTW

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Originally Posted by Claude_Marie View Post
....
One of many "strange" decisions Moitessier made...giving the money from one of his book to the pope...and so forth.

RKJ victory is a well deserved one.

Btw, Moitessier (unlike RKJ) did not enter any other race.
He just was not a racer.
I agree, he was not a racer even if a better sailor then Sir Robin (at the time). I only said that he did not give up because he had a mental breakdown but just because he decided that he was not interested in it, or was more interested in something else.

I agree that both are strange decisions but I never said Moitessier was a vulgar or even "normal" guy, just that he did not seem a weak minded guy to me, just the opposite.

Never said that the RKJ victory was not well deserved.

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Old 26-04-2015, 11:10   #93
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Re: Interesting 'bluewater' test !! RTW

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The race under discussion is the longest to my knowledge.
...
You mean the longest as to the one that it takes more time?

He asked "longest anyone has soloed non-stop" and if he mean the biggest distance, Moitessier at that time had done almost one circumnavigation and a half without stop but the one that sailed more time non stop was Jon Sauders on a triple non stopping circumnavigation: 658 days, 70,000 nautical miles.

It was back in 1988 and he used a very modern (at the time) fin keel boat.
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Old 26-04-2015, 11:11   #94
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Interesting 'bluewater' test !! RTW


While a testament to actively dealing with heavy weather and the stability of the Contessa 32, it seems in line with my point.

Rolling a boat 360 or turning turtle is more than likely going to disable the boat.

I have been flying a storm jib w/ a dbl reefed main and near broached my old beast a number of times on a pitch black night 30 miles off of Cameron, La. My adrenalin junkie son was at the helm giggling like a school girl.

We pointed up another 10 degrees in those washing machine seas despite the fact that it put us almost beam on to a large wave train and eased the stress on rigging, hull and crew. I didn't blow out my storm jib.

In today's world where the Americas Cup is postponed due to 20 mph winds it nice to know that a little boat like a Contessa has proven herself in heavy weather. Alan Ker sounds a bit like my son.

I am the one left to sew up or replace my sails and repair my rigging. I will leave the 360's to the aerial acrobats.






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Old 26-04-2015, 11:15   #95
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Re: Interesting 'bluewater' test !! RTW

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
You mean the longest as to the one that it takes more time?



He asked "longest anyone has soloed non-stop" and if he mean the biggest distance, Moitessier at that time had done almost one circumnavigation and a half without stop but the one that sailed more time non stop was Jon Sauders on a triple non stopping circumnavigation: 658 days, 70,000 nautical miles.



It was back in 1988 and he used a very modern (at the time) fin keel boat.

Sounds like a true masochist. Certainly a driven individual.

What can I say? I am a fan of cold toilet seats.


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Old 26-04-2015, 11:43   #96
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Re: Interesting 'bluewater' test !! RTW

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Originally Posted by Claude_Marie View Post
I beg to differ, RKJ won courtesy of....nobody.

Where others broke mast (Loc Fougeron) or hull (Tetley), Moitessier broke mentally, did not have the stamina to make it to port.

Instead, retreated bravely (in the typical french way), turned tail only to be seen next some six months after in Tahiti, or some remote atoll nearby.

Then turned up an obscure former Navy officer by the name of Eric Tabarly...but that's another story...

Moitessier was quickly forgotten by the main stream medias.
What a bizarre evaluation of behavior that would seem to indicate little else than a shift away from mainstream egoistic values. He clearly had a great deal MORE stamina than what would have been required to "make it to port"; whatever you think about his decisions I don't know how anyone could reasonably dispute that. Far from "turning tail", he continued to press on in the solitary exploration of his own deeper self--a task most people spend their lives running from. But, yes, he did stop being a racer toward the end of the race. He realized that he valued authenticity more than the inevitable acclaim and/or money--or anything else that a race (or his former life) might offer.
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Old 26-04-2015, 13:25   #97
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Re: Interesting 'bluewater' test !! RTW

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
He asked "longest anyone has soloed non-stop" and if he mean the biggest distance, Moitessier at that time had done almost one circumnavigation and a half without stop but the one that sailed more time non stop was Jon Sauders on a triple non stopping circumnavigation: 658 days, 70,000 nautical miles.

It was back in 1988 and he used a very modern (at the time) fin keel boat.
That's impressive timing for three times around the planet. Was that around the horns each time or did he go through the canals?

After some quick research it looks like Reid Stowe holds the solo record now for the longest time solo at sea, in a 70 ft schooner. He needed a boat that big to hold enough provisions, and had no refrigeration. But, doesn't look like he travelled as far as Sanders, it was only once RTW, and he stayed near the equator in the middle of the Atlantic for the last five months.

Fact sheet pdf:
http://www.1000days.net/home/media/P...SheetFinal.pdf

Longest non-stop solo voyage without re-supply.
Previous Record: Jon Sanders - 657 days
Reid Stowe - 846 days

Longest non-stop sea voyage without re-supply.
Previous record: Jon Sanders - 657 days
Reid Stowe - 1,152 days

The difference between the two records is because Stowe's girlfriend was on the boat for 306 days.

There's also another guy, Craig “Blazing Shadz” Butler, who is planning a trip of 1,000 days and 100,000 miles solo, but hasn't started yet.
Longest Solo Voyage - Home

Sorry about the thread derail, back to the original topic . . .
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Old 26-04-2015, 13:38   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claude_Marie View Post
I beg to differ, RKJ won courtesy of....nobody.

Where others broke mast (Loc Fougeron) or hull (Tetley), Moitessier broke mentally, did not have the stamina to make it to port.

Instead, retreated bravely (in the typical french way), turned tail only to be seen next some six months after in Tahiti, or some remote atoll nearby.

Then turned up an obscure former Navy officer by the name of Eric Tabarly...but that's another story...

Moitessier was quickly forgotten by the main stream medias.
If one calls 'Breaking Mentally' sailing halfway round the world again.. then I've broken mentally a few times.. and I only did SMX to Salcombe non-stop.. obviously you've never been at sea solo long enough to hate the thought of making land again with all its petty crap and phoney plaudits.. do some serious non-stop time at sea alone and maybe.. just maybe.. you'll understand why he altered course and sailed on till lack of provisions forced a stop...
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Old 27-04-2015, 07:31   #99
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Re: Interesting 'bluewater' test !! RTW

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Yep, just like most races.

People are never happy. When the Americas Cup switched to Catamarans folks said it wasn't sailing, it was drag racing with no tactics and it was too fast.

This "race" will be very tough for the sailors in this day and age of high technology. They will be attempting to go back into the past.

Can these guys even have a computer on board?
I see the GGR is firstly an " invite only" affair, so its not an open competition anyway

They do have a GPS in a sealed box for " emergencies ".

They are carrying a range of modern safety kit, including epirbs and arc tracking etc

Its not limited to GRP, its limited to GRP if they are " production yachts ", One offs ( like Joshua etc) would be allowed ( subject to approval)


Its a funny race. an attempt to force the competitors back to the 60s
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Old 27-04-2015, 07:37   #100
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Re: Interesting 'bluewater' test !! RTW

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claude_Marie View Post
I beg to differ, RKJ won courtesy of....nobody.

Where others broke mast (Loc Fougeron) or hull (Tetley), Moitessier broke mentally, did not have the stamina to make it to port.

Instead, retreated bravely (in the typical french way), turned tail only to be seen next some six months after in Tahiti, or some remote atoll nearby.

Then turned up an obscure former Navy officer by the name of Eric Tabarly...but that's another story...

Moitessier was quickly forgotten by the main stream medias.

wow, what a collection of nonsense

while no doubt Knox Johnston deserved his win, He was clearly being beaten by Moitessier, if you read his books, its clear that Moitessier loved the south seas, and simply decided , to return there, There is NO evidence of any " mental breakdown", in fact arguably their is considerable evidence of sanity !!.

Moitessier is a sustained legend in french sailing circles, just like RKJ is in English one. Since you obviously read just Anglo history, it may account for your perverse view points
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Old 27-04-2015, 11:20   #101
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Re: Interesting 'bluewater' test !! RTW

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If one calls 'Breaking Mentally' sailing halfway round the world again.. then I've broken mentally a few times.. and I only did SMX to Salcombe non-stop.. obviously you've never been at sea solo long enough to hate the thought of making land again with all its petty crap and phoney plaudits.. do some serious non-stop time at sea alone and maybe.. just maybe.. you'll understand why he altered course and sailed on till lack of provisions forced a stop...

Nevertheless, he went for the easiest choice, call it the less difficult, if you wish to.

I can not see much of a fighting spirit in that kind of attitude.

What's the point to enter a race if it is to give up at 3/4 of the way, with the finish line in sight, whilst his boat was in perfect working order unlike others who had no choice to resign.

Not claiming a prize ....and make a living out of books, through the publicity this un-understandable decision attracted on him is discutable.

From a marketing point of view, it looks like these modern clever advertising campaigns :
- first, tease, communicate in an obscure and un-understable way.
- second, give clues et deliver whatever message you whish to get through.

No wonder, people rushed to buy his first book, which was re-printed several times.

I cannot see Moitessier name nowhere near associated with names like Cousteau, Tabarly, Paul Emile Victor (Polar explorer), Herzog + Lachenal (K2- Annapurna) and many others "great men" from this generation.

I am not looking forward for an argument with you, and I shall try to phrase this out in a kind way, you need to understand that in the 60ies, France which had been humiliated durring WW2 was recovering from destruction and lost of its colonial empire, achievements in sports, explorations were seen as a way to restore some sort of french national pride.
Sportsmen (although maybe not Moitessier, who did not have a name, or who was already rated "unreliable" by french Intelligence) were state sponsored.
Tabarly got one of his Pen Duick built in a French Navy shipward in Brest.
French, as a nation, needed their self confidence (or arrogance) to be patched.
Sportsmen were honored and rewarded upon their return, still the case these days.
Moitessier selfishly did not met these expectations...despite flying a french flag.
As an american and a sailor, you will agree with me that a flag deserves respect.
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Old 27-04-2015, 11:28   #102
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Re: Interesting 'bluewater' test !! RTW

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post

Moitessier is a sustained legend in french sailing circles, just like RKJ is in English one. Since you obviously read just Anglo history, it may account for your perverse view points
Wrong !

Moitessier is regarded by many as a self proclaimed sailing guru.

Definitely does not play in the same league that Sir Robin Knox Johnson, who is regarded with a tremendous respect by the professional racers.
And there are quite a few talented ones in France.

Ask any professional french skippers who they got inspired by, it is Tabarly and not Moitessier.




Facts and figures !!


I have just googles "cole (school) Moitessier" and school Tabarly.
Result :
19 schools are named Eric Tabarly (mostly primary school and an engineer school)
0 (zro !) school named Moitessier.
Period.
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Old 27-04-2015, 11:32   #103
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As an american and a sailor, you will agree with me that a flag deserves respect.
I am definitely NOT an American...
And most definitely NOT a sailor.. just a humble Seaman..
Way I see it they all went in it for the money.. including RKJ.. bugga all to do with glory or the flag.. and the only one who had a mental problem was Crowhurst.. and that it seems was evident to some even before the race..
Mottessier just changed his mind about the money.. which back then was worth a lot more than the measly 75000 on offer for this race.. money is like food.. some eat to live.. others live to eat..
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Old 27-04-2015, 11:33   #104
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Re: Interesting 'bluewater' test !! RTW

[QUOTE=Claude_Marie;1811286]Nevertheless, he went for the easiest choice, call it the less difficult, if you wish to.

Quote:
I can not see much of a fighting spirit in that kind of attitude.

What's the point to enter a race if it is to give up at 3/4 of the way, with the finish line in sight, whilst his boat was in perfect working order unlike others who had no choice to resign.
Im sorry , he simply regarded wining as not important, he had already proved he could do it in so much as he survived the difficult bits and his boat was arguably in the best condition of all of them

Quote:
Not claiming a prize ....and make a living out of books, through the publicity this un-understandable decision attracted on him is discutable.
to quote his Wiki article

Quote:
a French national born and raised in Vietnam, is one of the most respected sailors of his generation. He stands out from his peers, however, because of his unique approach to long distance sailing as a graceful communion with nature which contrasted starkly with his mainly Anglo-Saxon peers,

Quote:
From a marketing point of view, it looks like these modern clever advertising campaigns :
- first, tease, communicate in an obscure and un-understable way.
- second, give clues et deliver whatever message you whish to get through.

No wonder, people rushed to buy his first book, which was re-printed several times.
Have you read any of his books, they are a good read , escapism for the masses.

Quote:
I cannot see Moitessier name nowhere near associated with names like Cousteau, Tabarly, Paul Emile Victor (Polar explorer), Herzog + Lachenal (K2- Annapurna) and many others "great men" from this generation.
I refer you to his Wiki article again , His grave still receives gifts an momentos to this day, hardly " forgotten"

Quote:
I am not looking forward for an argument with you, and I shall try to phrase this out in a kind way, you need to understand that in the 60ies, France which had been humiliated durring WW2 was recovering from destruction and lost of its colonial empire, achievements in sports, explorations were seen as a way to restore some sort of french national pride.
Sportsmen (although maybe not Moitessier, who did not have a name, or who was already rated "unreliable" by french Intelligence) were state sponsored.
Tabarly got one of his Pen Duick built in a French Navy shipward in Brest.
French, as a nation, needed their self confidence (or arrogance) to be patched.
Sportsmen were honored and rewarded upon their return, still the case these days.
Im sorry but you are fitting events to suit a bias. Taberly was from a wealthy family and was a Naval Officier,a pillar of the establishment, Pen Duick was bought by his father and refitted by taberly himself.

what is different in France , is that offshore sailing is nearly a national sport, given the sort of profile reserved for premier football players in the UK. Ask Ellen McArthur about why she learnt french and about her french profile. Arguably the French are the worlds greatest sailors.

Quote:
Moitessier selfishly did not met these expectations...despite flying a french flag.
As an american and a sailor, you will agree with me that a flag deserves respect.
He saw himself as an anti authority figure , he was against nuclear armaments and protested against the french experiments in the south seas. He clearly had no desire to associate himself with the state.

as for flag respect, thats a very charged questions, some flags at some times deserve respect , others may not agree.
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Old 27-04-2015, 11:47   #105
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Re: Interesting 'bluewater' test !! RTW

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Originally Posted by Claude_Marie View Post
....

Ask any professional french skippers who they got inspired by, it is Tabarly and not Moitessier.
Off course, Tabarly was a racing sailor so racing sailors are inspired by him.

Ask to French low budget long range cruisers that live on their boat who inspired them and they will say Moitessier.

Moitessier entered a race convinced that was what we wanted to do. At the middle of it he discovered that what mattered to him was not the race but sailing, give up the race and keep on sailing.

I don't understand how a man changing opinion means having a breakdown. Normally it is needed a strong mind to change of opinion specially knowing that his attitude would be misunderstood by many.

I agree with this view:

Bernard Moitessier ..., a French national born and raised in Vietnam, is one of the most respected sailors of his generation. He stands out from his peers, however, because of his unique approach to long distance sailing as a graceful communion with nature which contrasted starkly with his mainly Anglo-Saxon peers, who largely viewed long distance solo sailing as either a hardship to be heroically endured or a technical exercise.


For the ones that don't know him the wikipedia article is not bad:

Bernard Moitessier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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