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Old 09-03-2014, 00:42   #61
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Re: In Mast Furling

Have been living aboard and cruising full-time since 1 May 2006, approximately 29,000 NM to date. Have in-mast furling main and mizzen; main operated electrically (which can be over-ridden and done manually) and the mizzen is manually operated. Never had even a hint of a jam on either. It is not rocket science to deploy and douse these type sails correctly without causing jamming...regardless of type of weather conditions. If it is jamming then it is an equipment design issue. Either slot is not large enough or the area inside the mast is not large enough or someone is using vertical battens for a mast that was not designed for such. Poor equipment design.

Judy
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:53   #62
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Re: In Mast Furling

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... If it is jamming then it is an equipment design issue. Either slot is not large enough or the area inside the mast is not large enough or someone is using vertical battens for a mast that was not designed for such. Poor equipment design.

Judy
Or poor equipment condition: once the sail leech gets gnarly and/or the sail starts to develop a belly, problems can gang up on even a well designed, and well specced rig., IME.
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Old 09-03-2014, 17:00   #63
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Re: In Mast Furling

When I looked for a new boat I looked for one with in mast furling. I ended up with a manuel Hood Stowaway. It's awesome. While others are reaching around with just their jib out because they don't want to deal with putting a main up and down we always have our main out.

Why did I want one?

1. Very convenient. By the way it only takes one person to do this and ours in manual.
2. I think battens were actually invented to beat the rule. They produced free sail area.
3. I don't consider our mainsail slow at all.
4. Phil Weld told me that why was he won the Ostar. The Hood Stowaway on Moxie. Phil was 65 when he won the single handed race across the Atlantic. He couldn't say enough good things about the stowaway.

Some tips
1. When furling don't head strait into the wind. 5 degrees or so off to keep the sail from binding on the opening.
2. Boom angle very important.
3. Keep a bit of tension on the outhaul. I put the out haul loosely around a winch one turn and then let it flow.


PS I think it's David Pedrick, not Richard.
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Old 09-03-2014, 17:14   #64
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Re: In Mast Furling

The last time I got involved with a roller furling mast post I got a lot of heat because I used the tabooed term lazy. So I am going to stay away from that one. My take on the RF main is that its all about how and why you sail. Now I sail for the joy of doing it and the challenge of getting as much out of the wind as I can. Now at 75 I rarely race but I do single hand and while not in full racing mode I am probably at 85% or more. So a RF main is not for me. My judgment as to reliability is only a guess since I have never owed a RF main but I suspect like everything on a boat they can go wrong. I can imagine a situation where I would use a RF main. As I get older say 88 or 90 and am still single handing I might want to move toward a motor sailor type of boat where the sails are more for assist or steading purposes and then I would go all RF. I have had friends who looked at sailing as a way to get out in the open air with sandwich and beer and didn't give a dam about sail trim and why not RF for them. Different folks different strokes.
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Old 09-03-2014, 17:22   #65
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Re: In Mast Furling

Re Bob Perry and the use of a RF mainsail:

Mr Perry, along with all other naval architects, will design a boat with whatever features and equipment that the owner desires. That is what he is paid to do. It does not necessarily reflect his personal favorites.

NA's, of course, will not deliberately design a dangerous or unseaworthy vessel. It appears that both sales offices and accountants will add or subtract features not to the liking of the NA, and beyond his control.

Cheers,

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Old 09-03-2014, 18:23   #66
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Re: In Mast Furling

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Originally Posted by Safari38LH View Post

1. Very convenient. By the way it only takes one person to do this and ours in manual.
2. I think battens were actually invented to beat the rule. They produced free sail area.
3. Keep a bit of tension on the outhaul. I put the out haul loosely around a winch one turn and then let it flow.


PS I think it's David Pedrick, not Richard.
Correct on that

Only one person needed for our too either furling or unfurling.
There were certainly sails long before battens
Correct on the angle & tension. Its all about control. If you do it right, it just works well every time. If its really blowing, you also have to keep the boom from flogging.
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:44   #67
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Re: In Mast Furling

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Correct on that

Only one person needed for our too either furling or unfurling.
There were certainly sails long before battens
Correct on the angle & tension. Its all about control. If you do it right, it just works well every time. If its really blowing, you also have to keep the boom from flogging.
Yeah, it's called the Gaff rig! haha
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Old 10-03-2014, 14:02   #68
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Re: In Mast Furling

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Yeah, it's called the Gaff rig! haha

Oh, you mean the idea they've recycled and taken to calling a "square headed main"?
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Old 25-03-2014, 22:34   #69
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Re: In Mast Furling

Minaret. I'm new to the app. But u mentioned that your dad had replaced his Hunter 26 CB in Mexico

Could u ease let me know how to contact him. I just broke mine in half 2 days ago. Sails rather poorly to windward, with a 42 in CB.

Thanks. keithscientist@gmail.com
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Old 31-05-2014, 21:27   #70
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Re: In Mast Furling

We chartered an exquisitely maintained Beneteau 393 in the Gulf three or four times. It had lazy-jacks and we never had a problem with the main or with reefing.

We chartered a Jeanneau 39DS in the med with roller furling. We spent two weeks on the boat and never mastered it. The line that kept the furler form spinning free could be cleated off with no difficulty at all. Our trouble was that the jam where it tensioned the furler wasn't strong enough to keep the sail from unfurling in the breeze. Thus we could reef, but we couldn't keep the reef in place.

Our first afternoon the thing jammed in the mast because the previous user had rolled it up loose. We had to return to the base to get the thing unstuck. The solution ended up being a very robust pull at the clew. We let the charter company employee do that...

Underway the sail bowed tremendously at the foot. There was no reasonable way to trim the sail shape.

This boat had also been dismasted by the previous charter group and the whole thing replaced, so the system likely wasn't properly set up. Also, I am not the greatest sailor in the world. It is likely that these two factors played a big role in our inability to get the hang of the roller furler.

Our takeaway was that a proper roller furler would be fantastic, but success depends a lot on both the design and installation of the system and the knowledge and attention to detail of the owner.

A secondary question is whether a system this sensitive to proper use belongs on a charter boat in the first place. The troubles all seemed to have started with a bunch of drunk non-sailors abusing the boat...

Yet roller furlers seem to be the standard in charter fleets, now, and as many have said they are the norm rather than the exception. If they didn't work they wouldn't be so popular. Right?
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Old 31-05-2014, 23:09   #71
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Re: In Mast Furling

I have a Bavaria Vision 40 for over 5 years now with roller furling main. I replaced the dacron full-length vertical batten main (did not like the shape in high winds) that came with the boat with a kevlar laminate vertical short-batten main.

It takes me alone less than 30 seconds to unfurl or furl the main. I do not have to point directly into the wind, just release the boom enough to have no or littleload in the main. I reef with just letting the boom out or pinch up a little to reduce the load in the main.

It is interesting to observe on many occasions that I easily sail past motoring or genoa-only boats of the same size because they are too lazy to hoist their reguar main.

I also have a cat with slab reefing main and often I am too lazy to spend all that time with my wife to hoist the main. I wish it came with a mast furling main option.

I never had any problems with my fuling main, but many occasions with stuck slab reefing mains, including on the cat and several race boats.
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Old 04-06-2014, 12:27   #72
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I've had both, and each has its pluses and minuses.

In lighter wind, and in places with more benign conditions, the full batten slab reeling main is unbeatable, you just can't argue with roach, which is the aerodynamic trump card.

In tough weather, and places (like where I sail) with a lot of strong weather, give me roller furling any time. Reefed down, the shape of a roller furling main is better. And the instant, infinitely variable reeling and unreefing, which can be done without heading up, is a Godsend in tough conditions. With roller furling, you can change the sail area every ten minutes if you like - no sweat.
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Old 04-06-2014, 13:57   #73
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Re: In Mast Furling

I've got one of each. One in mast furling, one old fashioned main with lazy jacks. I much prefer the in-mast. In ten years I've jammed it once, my fault, getting too cocky, blowing thirty, bagged out main and I furled it going downwind. Next time it jammed and would not unfurl. Four hours slowly working my way up the mast and tugging on the sail got it out. Next season I got a new main and my cockiness has diminished a bit so I take a bit more care furling. No more furling while sailing downwind in 30 knots.
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Old 04-06-2014, 14:20   #74
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Re: In Mast Furling

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...
No more furling while sailing downwind in 30 knots.
But, that is just where you NEED the advantages that are supposed to be there with a roller! And, apparently Dockhead's setup does work under such conditions. What is different about his arrangement (other than it being on a fairly big boat and sail)?

Jim
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Old 04-06-2014, 15:59   #75
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Re: In Mast Furling

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But, that is just where you NEED the advantages that are supposed to be there with a roller! And, apparently Dockhead's setup does work under such conditions. What is different about his arrangement (other than it being on a fairly big boat and sail)?

Jim


The sail is not blown out? That really, really matters. As I've said before, this means you must replace a furling main more often. But they cost much less than a standard main, so the cost works out the same or even cheaper for the furler. Unless you do as I do and spend the difference getting the very best furling sails you can...
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