Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-03-2014, 14:13   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 464
Re: In Mast Furling

Two years ago I was crew on a trip from NJ to Fla on a brand new
Jeanneau 45 Sun Odessey. We had in mast furling and 2 speed electric
winches. It certainly made life easier but required a different sort of attention
To detail. We always made sure we were dead into the wind to furl
and unfurl. There was always some binding and jamming if this was not the case. On more than one occasion we had to back off the furl and pull out the
main a bit and retry. The set up on this boat resulted in a loose
footed Unbattened sail. Others can comment on wether this is good or bad
It's beyond my experience. We also we're never in a situation where we had
To reef so I don't what the resultant sail shape would have been.
Also sometime after I departed the boat I heard the owner did some damage to the main by trying to overpower a jam with the electric winch.
I loved the set up from a work load perspective, but it was not
Worry Free and I can see how some carelessness can really make a good day
go sour.
__________________

__________________
Time2Go is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2014, 14:28   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Seattle
Boat: Wauquiez Centurion 49
Posts: 720
Images: 13
Re: In Mast Furling

If the main is partially furled, and then jams, you cannot simply let the halyard go. You are SOL.

When they put them on VO70's, I'll consider it.
__________________

__________________
CAELESTIS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2014, 14:49   #18
Registered User
 
neilpride's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in the world
Boat: csy 44 tall rig.
Posts: 3,099
Re: In Mast Furling

Boat . Beneteau 40
Arrive in our dock asking for a new forestay chainplate, new furler headstay and a couple of new lowers, at the end of the job the owner ask if is posible to unfurl the mainsail, we try , actually 1 hour , nothing, the sail is stuck no matter what, 2 options for the customer : 1 , we can try harder at the risk to break the mainsail or 2 , drop the mast and dismantle the furler and the sail, you can figurate the owner face when we mention drop the mast, really? Yes!! mast brand Z Spar gold label, actually a piece of crap, when we free the mainsail we found the leech twisted , so no way to unfurl the mainsail , even the mainsail need to visit the sailmaker because we cut the block at the clew, really funy, so be sure you furl the sail nice and neat and tight otherwise is expensive to fix a tough jam in the furler.

Answer the Op question about to going the other way, expensive to, new mast sail and lots of other things... Cheers.
__________________
neilpride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2014, 14:49   #19
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: In Mast Furling

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAELESTIS View Post
If the main is partially furled, and then jams, you cannot simply let the halyard go. You are SOL.



When they put them on VO70's, I'll consider it.

That's not a failure mode that occurs

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2014, 15:07   #20
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,748
Re: In Mast Furling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Time2Go View Post
Two years ago I was crew on a trip from NJ to Fla on a brand new
Jeanneau 45 Sun Odessey. We had in mast furling and 2 speed electric
winches. It certainly made life easier but required a different sort of attention
To detail. We always made sure we were dead into the wind to furl
and unfurl. There was always some binding and jamming if this was not the case. On more than one occasion we had to back off the furl and pull out the
main a bit and retry. The set up on this boat resulted in a loose
footed Unbattened sail. Others can comment on wether this is good or bad
It's beyond my experience. We also we're never in a situation where we had
To reef so I don't what the resultant sail shape would have been.
Also sometime after I departed the boat I heard the owner did some damage to the main by trying to overpower a jam with the electric winch.
I loved the set up from a work load perspective, but it was not
Worry Free and I can see how some carelessness can really make a good day
go sour.
Sorry, but that's not the way in-mast furling works. It has some advantages, and some disadvantages, but the probably most spectacular advantage is that you can furl and unfurl it -- off the wind -- even in a gale!. If you really needed to head up to furl it, then it really wouldn't make an ounce of sense. But as it is, you can reef just a bit -- or unreef just a bit -- in any conditions! Without heading up. And it's shape is no more crappy () when it's reefed far down, than it is fully unfurled. So in-mast furling is really good in heavy weather. Infinitely variable sail area; infinite reefing, and no need to go head-to-wind. That probably explains its tremendous popularity where I sail -- in the English Channel -- where probably 90% of modern boats over 40 feet have in-mast furling, and 99.9% of boats over 50 feet.

The big downside is shape, of course. Somewhat offset on boats designed for it, and with much taller rigs, but the hollow leech is a big minus for sailing performance, however you cut it.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2014, 15:13   #21
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Neptune's Gear's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Gulf Harbour, New Zealand
Boat: Farr Phase 4, 12.8m
Posts: 992
Re: In Mast Furling

Dave, Every failure mode occurs. Some just more rare than others.

As I said above, I've personally dealt with a sail stuck a bit over half out. I know lots of boats have in mast furling, and like it, and many systems have been trouble free. However, for me, the consequences of a failure at the wrong time are too high. Plus the shape issue.

I'm just about to order a new laminated, battened sail - I like to go to weather efficiently!
__________________
Matt Paulin
Neptunes Gear Ltd
www.neptunes-gear.com
Neptune's Gear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2014, 15:15   #22
Registered User
 
Red Sky's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Boat: Caliber 40 LRC
Posts: 335
Re: In Mast Furling

A couple of weeks ago I was told by my sailmaker that there was a Caliber like mine at one of the rigging shops here in Alameda. I went over to see which one it was as I'm familiar with most here in the S.F. Bay. It had a Selden furling mast that the owner was having converted to a full batten main with batt cars. The rigger had removed the "guts" inside the mast and was installing an aluminum strip that was bent to match the curve of the back side of the mast, can't remember if it was going to be attached with screws or rivets. They left the "Furlin" winch on the mast as it's probably the best way to retain structural strength in that area. The batt car track then was going to be attached to the aluminum strip. Seems like it was going to work and it saved $$$.
__________________
Red Sky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2014, 15:30   #23
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,968
Re: In Mast Furling

It would be great to hear from someone who actually owns a boat with a furling mainsail and doesn't like it

Maybe they hang out at a different board
__________________
CarlF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2014, 15:39   #24
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
Hud3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Virginia
Boat: Island Packet 380, now sold
Posts: 8,929
Images: 49
Re: In Mast Furling

^^^ That wouldn't be me. I loved mine. It helped make single-handing easy-peasy. Never had a jam or malfunction in 15,000+ nm, most of that offshore in all sorts of weather.
__________________
Hud
Hud3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2014, 15:43   #25
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hampton Roads
Boat: 1974 Bristol 27
Posts: 3,465
Re: In Mast Furling

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
It would be great to hear from someone who actually owns a boat with a furling mainsail and doesn't like it

Maybe they hang out at a different board
They are on the golf course having already sold their boats!

Roller Furling Mainsails
__________________
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2014, 15:52   #26
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Long Beach, CA
Boat: Tayana Vancouver 42
Posts: 1,854
Re: In Mast Furling

We once looked seriously at a used IP485 and asked why they came with in mast rather than in boom furling. His reply was that it took only (if I recall correctly iirc) 6 wraps to furl in the mast but 30 wraps to furl in the boom so less chance of a jam.

Sent from my LG-P769 using Tapatalk
__________________
Tayana42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2014, 16:01   #27
Registered User
 
scuba0_1's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: naples
Boat: 2005 Catalina 350
Posts: 670
Re: In Mast Furling

A little pressure on the main to furl it well result in a tighter furl. You can also have some one use tension on the out haul while you pull it in. The tighter it is the easier it is to pull out.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
scuba0_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2014, 16:03   #28
Senior Cruiser
 
DoubleWhisky's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home at Warsaw, Poland, boat in Eastern Med
Boat: Ocean Star 56.1 LR
Posts: 1,841
Re: In Mast Furling

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDabs View Post
There are many threads on this debate here on CF, and they're as fruitless as a Mono vs Cat thread in my opinion.
But little forgotten, as oposite to guns & anchors

Following I posted three years ago and didn't change mind from the time:

Lot was written about jamming in such systems. I'm sailing for 35 years now with different rigs through years. I had some mainsail jams. Only one really dangerous was the jam of slab reefing main caused by broken car near the head of the sail. It was not because of mishandling or bad maintenance - just a material fault.
Everything what move can jam, given the proper (or rather unproper) conditions, handling or other circumstances.

It is not always true that with furling mast You need a taller rig. For example Beneteau, Jeanneau and other brands of the group are designing their boats to accomodate somewhat longer boom with in mast furling to compensate for a lack of the roach. Or rather they do install somewhat shorter boom with slab reefing main. You need to remember, that they are designing for in mast furling as a standard, as they are selling most boats in this configuration. The slab reefing is the second choice in their case.

They are some drawbacks of in mast furling of course, but they may be remedied by vertical battens. They are now becoming more and more popular in Europe, and properly cut vertically battened main can be second to classic when racing, but the difference in hardly noticeable when cruising. Vertical battens are also the best solution to avoid jamming, as they keep the sail vertically tensioned when furling.

I have on my boat 60 square metres main with vertical battens. For some years and several gales I never had a problem with the system. We are sailing two handed and my Dearest, being rather not a muscular person, can handle the reefing by herself.
I have five vertical battens for mainsail. The sizing of the battens is rather similar to the horizontal ones. They are installed in pockets, and it is possible to put them in with a sail up, but it is difficult a little. Part (not too long) of the pocket is opening and after placing the batten inside is closed by a light, but extremely strong velcro. Normally I'm putting battens inside during the hoisting the sail - hoisting the sail halfway up, putting the battens in, hoisting more than two thirds up, putting down ends of battens in place, closing the pockets, hoisting fully up.
Only down part (about two feet) of each pockets is beefier than for horizontal battens. There is also an additional patch at the feet of the sail.

As for the roach, I have about half of the roach of horizontally battened main.

Important thing about vertical battens is - all of them should be full length.
Some sailmakers make every second batten only half long. The shape of the sail is compromised just minimally by this (You must look close and carefully to notice it), but sometime such a half batten can be a cause of jam, if furling is not done properly enough, without enough tension on haul out line. With full length battens the only reason of jam I can imagine (except something in hardware brake - but this is possible with any rig) is a loose line near the entrance of sail into the mast. You can tell it is not probable, but I saw several charter boats with mains jammed by some loose flagline or something similar


I'm not trying to convince anybody that one system is better than the other - I'm only telling that in mast furling is good and reliable system and You can live with it happily. You just need to have a properly made sail for it, but this is a truth with any system.

Best regards

Thomas
__________________
DoubleWhisky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2014, 16:08   #29
Registered User
 
Red Sky's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Boat: Caliber 40 LRC
Posts: 335
Re: In Mast Furling

Ease the mainsheet, keep slight tension on the outhaul and roll it up.

My Uncle who taught me about sailing a long time ago wouldn't never buy into one of those new fangled roller furling head sails either. And you better have two masts too.
__________________
Red Sky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2014, 16:12   #30
cruiser

Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
Re: In Mast Furling

I want one even more now.
__________________

__________________
SaltyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
furling, mast

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Attaching a Removable Inner Forestay to the Mast Weyalan Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 32 21-12-2013 07:05
Stepping O'day 17 Daysailer Mast Markjensen Monohull Sailboats 3 04-11-2012 19:14
Mast furling slot Pinched at spreaders ctsbillc Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 11 21-12-2011 20:05
Mast Came Down, Must Repair Acedude Construction, Maintenance & Refit 7 30-08-2011 14:01



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:13.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.