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Old 03-08-2007, 19:22   #1
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in board / out board

I have convinced myself I can live on a 27 to 30 foot boat. However I am not sure about an in board engine. Any pros, cons, opinions or 2cents.

Going to look at a early 80's Catalina.
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Old 03-08-2007, 20:38   #2
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When thinking outboard consider a following sea where the waves break on top of the outboard ripping it off the transom. Outboards are of course gasoline powered so that also present a problem of how to store fuel. Gasoline below deck is just not comfortable idea. If you day sail or do short cruises on a 27 / 30 ft boat you can easily power the boat with an outboard but for longer trips it carries potential problems you eliminate with a diesel inboard. Cost of operation may not be so much of an advantage to gasoline engines.

Outboards may be the cheapest up front solution and often times the cheaper solution is what you really wanted. You have to make the money work too. If you need to travel much then I wouldn't go with an outboard, but if you stay close and don't go far that often perhaps it's just fine.
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Old 03-08-2007, 20:43   #3
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Many people have cruised the globe in that size of a boat. It is easy to single hand and the bigger the boat the bigger the cost, as in larger sail cost, more anchors, higher dock fees, etc. The yanmar desiels are what you will most likely find in those boats. They are good little engines that last a long time and easy to get serviced. I had a Pearson 26 with an outboard and a Catalina 27 with a Yanmar. Several boat that you will find out there on the market built in the early 80's will have a rebuilt or new engine hopefully. The good thing with outboards is that they can be exchanged cheaper. When the old one goes bad just buy a new one. The desiels usually get rebuilt. The downside to an outboard is it could get stolen. There are ways to lock then on pretty good.
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Old 04-08-2007, 14:41   #4
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I sailed my first boat to New Zealand with an outboard in a well. Constant problems with salt in the ignition and corrosion. Sealed electronic ignitions have largely solved the ignition problems.
They also tend to kick out of the water in a swell ,when they are most needed.
Switched to a diesel and never looked back
Catalinas have a problem with a grossly unbalanced rudder, too much rudder too far behind the shaft. A friend who had one said she was afraid to leave harbour in over 15 knots of wind. I built her a 31 footer which she sailed from BC to England in.
The slope of the transom on a Catalina is perfect for an outboard rudder on a skeg, which would be a huge improvement. Ditto for Vegas, much better boats overall.
Brent
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Old 04-08-2007, 15:55   #5
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I think it depends on how you use the boat. Most livaboards I've come across seldom use their boats for sailing. Some have explained that all their worldly possessions are on their boat and it's difficult securing everything to go sailing. If you think you might be in this category, go with an outboard for a couple of reasons. First because it will reduce the price of the boats you're looking at considerably. And Second, diesel fuel just doesn't stay fresh like it used to. Lot's of additives and filter changes to get them to run on old fuel.

On the other hand, if you envision yourself becoming a sailing demon, it's hard to beat an inboard diesel for all the reasons already mentioned in this thread.
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Old 04-08-2007, 16:06   #6
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The first keelboat I owned was a Catalina 25 with an outboard. I still have memories of leaning over the transom trying restart the motor which was swamped by every other wave in a following sea... never again. There are as many pros and cons to outboards but I prefer inboards and love my yanmar.
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Old 04-08-2007, 16:45   #7
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Originally Posted by Pblais
When thinking outboard consider a following sea where the waves break on top of the outboard ripping it off the transom. Outboards are of course gasoline powered so that also present a problem of how to store fuel. Gasoline below deck is just not comfortable idea. If you day sail or do short cruises on a 27 / 30 ft boat you can easily power the boat with an outboard but for longer trips it carries potential problems you eliminate with a diesel inboard. Cost of operation may not be so much of an advantage to gasoline engines.

Outboards may be the cheapest up front solution and often times the cheaper solution is what you really wanted. You have to make the money work too. If you need to travel much then I wouldn't go with an outboard, but if you stay close and don't go far that often perhaps it's just fine.

---We have never had the outboard "RIPPED OFF THE TRANSOM" in severe seas and have never heard this issue before unless perhaps you are not aware of the proper way to bolt the outboard onto your vessel... Truly have to giggle when we read such wild information; however if we had a choice right now we would go for an inboard. You have many more power generating options as well as accessories that can be bolted onto an inboard where as an outboard generally has limited charge capabilities.
We have no issues with storing fuel on board, nor do we have issues with storing fuel in our vehicles on land, everything can be done in a correct safe manner, if you choose to do this in an unsafe manner then there is a risk.. When it comes to fuel consumption we currently stay in the 1/2 gallon per hour at 5.5 knts on a Honda 25hp 4 stroke We prefer to sail even in light winds, however there are times that it simply is not possible to do this... Once again you have to look at the size of your vessel, distance intended amount of actual use of the boat as diesel never stores well (not too many gas inboard sail boats out there.
If we were to go from Gas to Diesel right now, our savings would never come in during the life of the diesel motor.
JMO
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Old 04-08-2007, 18:22   #8
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Ativa,
I have to counter a few points. I think our original poster was refering to mono hulls. A cat is just different. I have seen outboards pulled off (yes even on my lake)and many more that were pooped and refused to run. I also see quite a few props out of the water in a hobby horse situation with outboards.
Now the stability of gas versus diesel. Gas has a shelf life of about 45 days before degradation begins. Diesel will also begin to degrade, but at a slwoer rate.
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Old 04-08-2007, 18:25   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ativa
---You have many more power generating options as well as accessories that can be bolted onto an inboard where as an outboard generally has limited charge capabilities.
JMO
Mine too!!!!!
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Old 04-08-2007, 19:59   #10
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Ativa,
I have to counter a few points. I think our original poster was refering to mono hulls. A cat is just different. I have seen outboards pulled off (yes even on my lake)and many more that were pooped and refused to run. I also see quite a few props out of the water in a hobby horse situation with outboards.
Now the stability of gas versus diesel. Gas has a shelf life of about 45 days before degradation begins. Diesel will also begin to degrade, but at a slwoer rate.
We have to agree a cat is a differnt breed. We are sitting on a dock here in Isla Mujeres getting ready for another leg in our journeys. We took this discussion to the other cruisers tonight during a rainy BBQ
Cats tend to use a larger outboard that have long shafts and locking devices that all but eliminate the prop from coming out of the water. (typical reverse issues on a cat not the hobby horse syndrome... different breed of boat)
What we were refering to as fuel degration was actually aimed at how our previous diesel tanks over time of storage would acumulate sluge/bac growth causing our filters to clog. It truly comes down to type of use, vessel and ease of operation.
We are still not sure how an outboard will be pulled off as generally when affixed to the boat they are bolted on and not installed with just the factory clamps as seen not only on our cat but two other boats here, perhaps it comes down to proper mounting plates and bolts.
Once agin we were refering to larger outboards that can handle to be "pooped" either because they have properly maintained seals or.... Well we never came to a conseses on it..
Best of luck choose what suits you the best.
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Old 04-08-2007, 20:40   #11
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Thanks

Lot of information I had not thought of. My plan is to go aboard at retirement about a year or two out. Will be spending a lot of time on board (probably live a board). However mostly Tampa Bay, Coastal. Maybe after aquiring skills Islands off Florida.

Most of the boats I am thinking of and can fit in the budget are in boards.

Looked at some 27's today and now understand a little better "not just three feet longer also more beam.

Again thanks for the input.
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Old 05-08-2007, 04:00   #12
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When we go out I run my twin diesels about 10 minutes before the sails go up. Light engine usage results in fuel staying in my tanks a long time. Invariably, after 3 months I have problems with fuel degration despite adding proper additives. Presently, I'm considering an onboard fuel polishing system or a "day tank" fuel system.

As I mentioned earlier, it really depends on how you plan to use the boat.
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:34   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksmith

Most of the boats I am thinking of and can fit in the budget are in boards.

Looked at some 27's today and now understand a little better "not just three feet longer also more beam.
Think volume. A couple of feet makes as much of a difference as the layout.

We have a Maxi 77 with inboard Volvo Power. There are now 5 maxis at our club and 3 of them have had outboards bolted on the transom when the volvo needed overhaul. The 4th just completed an overhaul and ours was overhauled about 4 years ago.

The guys with outboards drool over our boat. We would not give up the ability to press a button and have power. We have 3 batteries on board and charge with the engine and will be adding a solar topper early next year.

The ability to drive lights, sounders, autopilots, dvd player for the kids, a small fridge, etc. make the boat very useful and comfortable for our needs.

Sure you can add all solar but for a boat in our class length there isn't a lot of room to add panels.

IMHO outboards are for daysailers that come home by nightfall.
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Old 07-08-2007, 19:30   #14
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I tend to think of outboards for racing boats and, perhaps, daysailers. For live-aboards (part time or full time) inboard is the way to go. An inboard deisel will give you much more freedem with you electrical power usage (because you can easily recharge your batteries), and, provided it is well looked after, will last for years (or even decades).
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Old 08-08-2007, 19:15   #15
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new tack

In board sounds like the way to go in my case. However a couple of post got me thinking about electrical power. Right now its a 12 volt to run the lights and bilge pumps.

An alternator rated at 61 amps, is it putting that amount out when the boat engine is at idle? Also when an applicance says draws 2 amps would that be constant or over a given time. Or does it get more complicated than that.
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