I Just Fell Off the Turnip Wagon

[tuffr2]

I need to understand more about adding an additional 40k to 50k after I buy the boat. I heard of people buying a charter 42 foot cat. Sinking 50k into it. Using it for 4 years then selling it for what they paid. So they were 'only' out 50K...ugh.

I see some boats advertised with a long list of newish electronics. Must be 20 items listed. New chart plotters, auto pilots, wind vane, AIS etc. Seems all that kinda stuff adds up.



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[CHM]

It just depends on the condition and how well equipped the boat is at purchase, what you need to spend on neglected maintenance and what you want to have on the boat. It adds up quick. I also made some mistakes at the time of purchase which cost me such as not insisting on a sea trial. The marine survey looks at major systems, safety, and an approximate value, but the quality is variable and many details are overlooked - mostly due to the fact that you can't know everything about a boat in a day. "Serviceable" doesn't mean you can take the boat off-shore. Many boats on the market are not being used very much and have been sitting in their berth for many months. The boat is being sold for a reason - previous owner's health, no time to use it, no money, out of money, etc. If the boat sits for any length of time, expect to spend a lot of time and money bringing back to where you are satisfied with it. Expect to pay more for the "turn key" boats - if they are really that great. In my case, I spent a little over $50K for a 1988 Bene Oceanis 430. The boat had been used for day sailing for many years. The plexiglass on the ports and hatches were badly crazed and there was just a lot of delayed maintenance and upgrades to be done to make the boat mine. The boat is much better equipeed than when new and I can take it just about anywhere. I would rather have my $90K 1988 Bene than a similar production new boat. There was and still is so much to learn. After you buy a boat, you will quickly discover every system has something which requires your attention. Again, I knew I what I was getting into for the most part with my boat, and still made mistakes in the process.

[CHM]

I forgot to add one more thing: be careful of full-time live aboard boats. Many have been sitting in their slip for months/years without being "sailed" except for necessary bottom work. My marina has many boats used as houseboats complete with regular window air conditioners, etc. They go nowhere. The best boat to look at is the full-time cruiser's boat who spends his/her time travelling year round. I looked at a boat where the owners spent the last 8 years cruising the Pacific from Australia to Fiji to Hawaii, to the Pacific NW. Of course, the price reflected thic capability, condition, and equipment.

[Kevin84]

Tuffr2, let me ask you something. What are your expectations post purchase? What I mean is, are you budgeting for upgrades and maintenance or are you expecting initial purchase cost to be your only expense? Because from reading your posts, I get the feeling you don't have a very firm grip on the real cost of boat ownership. As CHM pointed out, even buying a brand new, fresh from the factory boat entails thousands of dollars in additions just to launch the boat, never mind everything you need to add to get her cruise ready.

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[tuffr2]

I do have a lot to learn and agree I will still make mistakes. I am one that will want the 'better' electronics so it just might be good if I buy a neglected boat then bring it up to snuff myself.

But I need to figure out exactly how I will use the boat. If I am by myself that is one scenario, if I only use it in the winter that is another scenerio.

There is a huge sailboat (my guess) 45' on the hard in an RV storage lot. I think the lot is only charging $35/month. The storage lot is 5 miles inland. The mast is off this boat. I may just go snoop around and ask about that boats story. Can't hurt.


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[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by CHM

.......................... Many boats on the market are not being used very much and have been sitting in their berth for many months. ....................

This is a very important point. A newer boat that has been sitting without care is likely to have less value than some boats a few years older that are well maintained and kept active. Corrosion, water damage, shortened engine life and mold/mildew problems increase with sitting closed and unused.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Tayana42

"In the US, I believe ANY boat over 26' is considered a yacht. "

In the US any boat that is 5ft longer than the one you own is considered a yacht.


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Whether a boat is a "yacht" is not determined by it's length, rather the size of the owners ego.

[boatpoker]

Tuffr2, I get the impression that you have not spent much time on boats and may have unrealistic expectations. We all have different tolerances for space, maintenance and even dirt. My wife and I could not tolerate living on some boats that others see as quite acceptable. You need to spend as much time as possible looking at boats within your budget to determine what you are prepared to put up with because none of them are perfect..

In harbours from Duluth through the Bahamas and Gulf of Mexico, whenever I saw a boat that interested me I would approach and ask about her. No one has ever turned me away and 98% of the time I get a tour. Boat owners love to talk about their boats so go hang out at the harbour and meet a few.

[tuffr2]

I have spent a lot of time on in-land lake runabout boats. I have and still do own a small runabout boat. Since 1980 I have owned 4 different boats. Each bigger and faster than the last one until my current little outboard powered, easy to launch, easy to handle, does not catch a lot of wind on windy days runabout.

But I will agree that a sailboat is a whole new ballgame and I have a ton to learn. I never thought of my runabouts as having 'systems'.

So on an overall scale of 0 - 10 of knowledge I am probably a 1. Not a complete zero.

A sailboat will be much more complex. I have always loved the water and a way to be on the water was to have a boat. If I want to be on ocean water then the answer is a sailboat.



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[appick]

I'd also back up the freshwater boats, again being a Great Lakes sailor myself. All the points about non corrosiveness of our environment are true. As the the freezing of bilges and rudders, I'd say its no different than the NE coast. If you have a wet rudder no matter where you are you need some work done, it doens't matter if it freezes or not.

I have seen many boats with leaks that end up with several inches of water in the bilge that freezes. Rarely have I seen this have any long term effect or cause damage. Not saying that it won't but I've only seen one hull seriously deformed from water inside. When we boarded and went below the ice was above the floorboard... That was a seriously neglected boat though. I've been tempted when looking at neglected boats to bring a drill and poke holes in the bilges of yard owned or seriously neglected boats. It'd almost be doing them a BIG favor...

As lots of others have stated upkeep costs on boats goes up exponetially by the length. So going from a 33 to a 40 is going to be 10x more expensive and 10x the work or so. Get the smallest boat you can feel and live comfortably on. Also if you can make it happen take a couple of charter vacations. Start off with getting one crewed to learn a thing or two. If you like it come back and take a captains course, learn some navigation ect. Then do yourself a BIG favor and take a marine diesel/ diesel repair course. You'll very quickly recover the cost of the course in the first couple of years of boat ownership! Hang out at boat yards, offer to crew on sailboats and get to know other boat owners. Also don't forget ot have fun!

We just had a Islander 37 sell, or is listed as sale pending in my yard. Nice boats and a good layout too. It is a bit older than I thought at 1969 but 37' and went for less than $27K in very nice condition, although it still had the atomic 4. Also Tartan 37's are great cruising boats and alot of them were built meaning at any given time there are a few for sale. Happy hunting!

[robert sailor]

I have outfitted 4 boats for offshore sailing and I missed stuff on every one of them. I probably missed less than some folks but my point is I have had quite a bit of experience doing this and I still got caught on some stuff. Its wise to set side a slush fund that will surely get used, if not used up plus some.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

I have spent a lot of time on in-land lake runabout boats. I have and still do own a small runabout boat. Since 1980 I have owned 4 different boats. Each bigger and faster than the last one until my current little outboard powered, easy to launch, easy to handle, does not catch a lot of wind on windy days runabout.

But I will agree that a sailboat is a whole new ballgame and I have a ton to learn. I never thought of my runabouts as having 'systems'.



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Take a look at Marine Survey 101, it will give you an idea of "systems" involved and how to inspect them.

PS. I completely agree with everything in Appick's post

[u4ea32]

Tuff, I agree with you.

While a 25 or 30 year old boat may be bought for $75K, you will then probably need that much again to make it so its not a 25 or 30 year old boat.

The fiberglass keeps looking good. Its all the other stuff that gets broken, worn, heinous, dangerous. And that other stuff costs a lot of money. So much money, that the real value of that 30 year old boat is $75, not $75K.

I spent a year traveling looking for a yacht to go cruising in retirement. Finally, I decided to just design and build. The design is still being refined -- working on lamination details -- but I think its pretty close to done. Its going to cost less than buying a used boat, and fixing and modifying and de-equipping and re-equipping a used boat.

[u4ea32]

Here is the secret about used boats: A boat of any age can be kept in spectacular condition, better than new. But those boats almost never come on the market. If you can find such a boat, buy it. That owner knows there is no value in it, its all about enjoyment, and they don't think about how much they have invested, they know they will never get that money back.

But boats that are not in spectacular, better than new condition, are the ones that the current owner wants to get rid of. Lots of work required, much more than you can see, or that a surveyor will find (surveyors are generally worthless).

[SaltyMonkey]

Originally Posted by u4ea32

Tuff, I agree with you.

While a 25 or 30 year old boat may be bought for $75K, you will then probably need that much again to make it so its not a 25 or 30 year old boat.

right on. And thats point #1.

Point #2:

Your looking for the deal takes time. That's opportunity wasted and has a price. You're losing money in travel etc.

Point #3:

Your labour is also money. It's more cost effective to earn extra cash at a higher paying job for a better boat than what averages out to be less than minimum wage trying to work a piece of junk.

To sum up: Its more cost effective saving up for a younger boat, well taken care by an owner with better systems, and priced to it's honest value. You'll save time, aggregation and money.

And it doesn't have to be a 250K+ boat.