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Old 09-11-2018, 18:56   #76
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Re: I am now a sailboat owner... 26’ MacGregor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Yeah, like over Niagara Falls...

Averaging well over hull speed for long distances seems pretty unlikely... for any boat.

Jim
"AVERAGING .... for ANY sailboat" found in later post.

I'm sure he wanted only to let you know they have been regularly
breaking that barrier for years.

The similarities to the M26 of course being your own contrivance.

Sad though , all the real info seems to get lost in some petty contest.
Just really sad.
Well, back to playing with boats.

Best Regards,
Ed W
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Old 09-11-2018, 21:27   #77
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Re: I am now a sailboat owner... 26’ MacGregor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Secondshift View Post
"AVERAGING .... for ANY sailboat" found in later post.

I'm sure he wanted only to let you know they have been regularly
breaking that barrier for years.

The similarities to the M26 of course being your own contrivance.

Sad though , all the real info seems to get lost in some petty contest.
Just really sad.
Well, back to playing with boats.

Best Regards,
Ed W
Mea Culpa...

I should have said "any conventional ballasted monohull"... boats like most of us sail. Actually seems to apply to most production catamarans too, if one looks at the ARC results. So, please, in your mind, change ANY to whatever modifier suits your idea of the discussion. I accept that my original statement was incorrect as posted.

But could anyone really think that a 100 foot highest tech professionally crewed multihull has much bearing on our discussion? Yes, this one and quite a few others have made fantastic passages and I stand in awe of the boats and their crews. They do indeed average well over 1.34 x sqt LWL, but then they are not bound by the same physical limitations that our cruising boats are

I still do not believe that a Mac 26 can average 8 knots over long distances. That's nearly 200 miles per day... something Ann and I have to work like hell to get in our much larger boat whose hull speed is over 9 knots. Noting that the Mac 26 is listed as having a PHRF rating of 222. That's not indicative of a really fast boat... not bad for a 26 foot trailer sailor, but hardly a speed demon.

Adding a strong favorable current to achieve the average really isn't germane to discussing boat performance. Rational folks talk about speed through the water when comparing performance, not speed over the ground.Hell, we've been in places where a cardboard box can do 8 SOG.

I'm sorry that you have taken such umbrage to my posts, but it is a free world here on CF. You feel that the "real info" seems to get lost. I feel that the 8 knot claim is not real info and deserves to be challenged. I did so by questioning the data. You have mostly been attacking me, not the message I sent. I don't much mind, but I too can feel "really sad" about the way this has played out.

Jim

PS Hoosier Doc, please don't take all this as criticism of your boat or your sailing. I'm really glad that you are enjoying the sport, and that it sounds like you will enjoy doing the DIY repairs and improvements ahead. A trailer sailor is a great way to learn to sail, especially when stuck way inland.

Actually, it is a great way no matter where you live... I started with a 15 foot O'Day Osprey dinghy and then spent 7 years sailing a Catalina 22, and I lived only 30 miles from San Francisco bay. That boat taught me a great deal, starting in the local lakes, graduating to the SF bay and eventually some coastal cruising in the ocean and a month long cruise in the Canadian Gulf Islands. It was great fun!

Jim
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:56   #78
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Re: I am now a sailboat owner... 26’ MacGregor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Horizons View Post
Only my memory.



This one, however, documented twice the hall speed averaged around the world:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...sailing-record

Traditional hull speed calculations do not apply to racing multi-hulls. Because the length:beam ratio is so high the resistance curve remains a lot flatter.

Doesn’t apply to racing monohulls so well either, they tend to be designed to plane.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:45   #79
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Re: I am now a sailboat owner... 26’ MacGregor

The Mac 26m is unique in that it will exceed 20 knots with an outboard. The OPs boat might be a different hull shape though but they look about the same to me. Perhaps these are semi displacement or semi-planing if that's a thing.
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:03   #80
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Re: I am now a sailboat owner... 26’ MacGregor

I believe this stated with a Mac 26 trailer sailor. It is not a displacement hull so I can see it planning and achieving better that traditional hull speed. A nice boat for a lake.
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:55   #81
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Re: I am now a sailboat owner... 26’ MacGregor

My Mac 26C would do 7.2 to 7.5 knots with a Honda 8. Pump out the ballast tank and it does it easily.
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Old 10-11-2018, 13:07   #82
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Re: I am now a sailboat owner... 26’ MacGregor

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Originally Posted by bcboomer View Post
My Mac 26C would do 7.2 to 7.5 knots with a Honda 8. Pump out the ballast tank and it does it easily.
Understood, but would you drive the boat hard under sail with no ballast?

Jim
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Old 10-11-2018, 13:17   #83
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Re: I am now a sailboat owner... 26’ MacGregor

Not a chance.

But, on a broad reach, they surf very easily with a full ballast tank.
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Old 10-11-2018, 13:31   #84
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Re: I am now a sailboat owner... 26’ MacGregor

Only the 26X and 26M specifically take a big motor and go fast. Rarely go for under $10-15K

The other 26s just putter along with a little one, like most trailer sailors. Often go for a grand or two.
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Old 10-11-2018, 14:20   #85
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Re: I am now a sailboat owner... 26’ MacGregor

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Only the 26X and 26M specifically take a big motor and go fast. Rarely go for under $10-15K

The other 26s just putter along with a little one, like most trailer sailors. Often go for a grand or two.
But the 26C and 26S will sail circles around the X and M power sailers.
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Old 10-11-2018, 19:40   #86
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Re: I am now a sailboat owner... 26’ MacGregor

The 26C (centerboard) sometimes called the 26S (sailboat) and the 26D
(daggerboard) are NOT designed to be operated without a full ballast tank.
A decal on the fill housing states this.

The motor sailor isn't the same hull and has an additional solid permanent
ballast. The water ballast tank can be emptied under power.

As Jim Cate stated earlier a performance handicap rating of 222 (New England)doesn't indicate an exceptionally fast boat. Another PHRF of 216 (Dallas Corinthian Yacht Club) seems to agree. So unless you have an extremely exotic sail plan modification you'll be no speed demon.

It will however make hull speed easily and exceed with some effort but I would consider partially emptying that ballast tank dangerous and foolish.
For what? One Knot? A half?
Though I have sometimes carried way too much sail and or flown a symmetrical when I should not have... chasing the same.
That of course is perfectly safe.

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Old 11-11-2018, 14:28   #87
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Re: I am now a sailboat owner... 26’ MacGregor

Additionally on the matter of diminishing the ballast water.

Though the idea of changing the boat specs by lessening its ballast
may on its face have some appeal. I would beg to remind that these
are simply comparative numbers.

The reality of my experience with this model and several other trailerables
is that they have a threshold at which they benefit from less sail. They simply don't "hold up" to full sail when it pipes up. Excessive heal diminishes boat speed.

There is an upper end (with full main etc.) where performance increases.
Very fun! For a while but sort of physical. Sawing a log on the traveler
and fighting a heavy helm can take their toll. For me at least I find I make more mistakes while fatigued. For that reason (and my wife's comfort), we tend to reef early(happy wife =happy life).
Unless of course our friends are sailing the same direction.

Best Regards,
Ed W

What do you call two sailboats going in the same direction? A race!
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Old 11-11-2018, 15:52   #88
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Re: I am now a sailboat owner... 26’ MacGregor

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Originally Posted by Secondshift View Post
Additionally on the matter of diminishing the ballast water.

Though the idea of changing the boat specs by lessening its ballast
may on its face have some appeal. I would beg to remind that these
are simply comparative numbers.

The reality of my experience with this model and several other trailerables
is that they have a threshold at which they benefit from less sail. They simply don't "hold up" to full sail when it pipes up. Excessive heal diminishes boat speed.

There is an upper end (with full main etc.) where performance increases.
Very fun! For a while but sort of physical. Sawing a log on the traveler
and fighting a heavy helm can take their toll. For me at least I find I make more mistakes while fatigued. For that reason (and my wife's comfort), we tend to reef early(happy wife =happy life).
Unless of course our friends are sailing the same direction.

Best Regards,
Ed W

What do you call two sailboats going in the same direction? A race!
I agree. The 26 sails best and most comfortably with modest sail area. We always changed to a smaller headsail to keep the Admiral happy. Unless, of course, there was another sailboat in sight. Then she suddenly felt that rail in the water was fun.
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