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Old 06-01-2015, 21:38   #316
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Re: Hunter sinks at Catalina due to bow cleat failure

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post

So are we finished with the Hunter thing?
I've been waiting for this. With everything you've now learned it's understandable that you're anxious to sell. But with the glut of well-found used boats out there selling for a song, don't forget to tell your broker to highlight your sturdy cleats & stout bow roller. In fact, based on Sequiter's example, I don't think it'd be a stretch to advertise that your boat is ready for Cape Horn!
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Old 06-01-2015, 21:47   #317
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Re: Hunter sinks at Catalina due to bow cleat failure

Why would I sell my Hunter? It's a great boat. Go find your own.
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Old 06-01-2015, 21:59   #318
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Re: Hunter sinks at Catalina due to bow cleat failure

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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
Jim,

Do you have any intel on the Hunter 49 from your sources in Tasmania that was delivered to Hobart about 2 years ago. Was an article in the Cruising Helmsman magazine.

I note it is now on the market and was wondering if the owners were changing or had other reasons for the sale.

cheers
Sorry, I know nothing about this boat, nor do I have any contacts in the brokerage business down here. If I should run into them (what is the baot name?) I'd be happy to chat them up.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 06-01-2015, 22:21   #319
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Re: Hunter sinks at Catalina due to bow cleat failure

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Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg
A "pretty clear difference" between "bluewater cruising", and "extended voyaging", huh?

Gotta love sailing forums, I learn something new every day...

:-)
I guess not to you. Feel free to go ahead and define them.
Nah, I'll pass, you're the one attempting to differentiate them, after all... Frankly, I just don't see that sharp a distinction between the two. And relative to this discussion, both would seem to involve spending a fair amount of time anchoring, often in somewhat unprotected anchorages or open roadsteads, which would likely require a robust ground tackle system to assure self-sufficiency... But perhaps that's just me...

However, if indeed there is such a "clear difference" between the two, and SEQUITUR's trip exemplifies "extended voyaging" in your mind, does that imply that Michael & Edi's voyage did not entail any "bluewater cruising"?

:-)
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Old 06-01-2015, 22:33   #320
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Re: Hunter sinks at Catalina due to bow cleat failure

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Why would I sell my Hunter? It's a great boat. Go find your own.
But I thought you just said you were finished with the Hunter thing?

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

So are we finished with the Hunter thing?


What about that vast, right-wing conspiracy of Hunter-Hater-Bashers that you have so brilliantly unearthed during the course of this thread? You know, the ones with no credibility who start bogus internet threads, who criticize cleats & bow rollers, who purposely run their Hunters aground in hurricanes, who make up bogus claims of rolly anchorages & water in their keels??

Are you really so devoted that you're telling us you'd rather fight than switch? Persevere through the storm when you can find safe harbor?? Keep your Hunter when you can simply sell it to me & Kenomac???
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Old 06-01-2015, 22:54   #321
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Re: Hunter sinks at Catalina due to bow cleat failure

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Originally Posted by Exile View Post
But I thought you just said you were finished with the Hunter thing?

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

So are we finished with the Hunter thing?


What about that vast, right-wing conspiracy of Hunter-Hater-Bashers that you have so brilliantly unearthed during the course of this thread? You know, the ones with no credibility who start bogus internet threads, who criticize cleats & bow rollers, who purposely run their Hunters aground in hurricanes, who make up bogus claims of rolly anchorages & water in their keels??

Are you really so devoted that you're telling us you'd rather fight than switch? Persevere through the storm when you can find safe harbor?? Keep your Hunter when you can simply sell it to me & Kenomac???
I don't think Kenomac has any Hunter withdrawal symptoms. I think he said something about he tried a Hunter once, but he didn't inhale.

Or something like that.

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Old 06-01-2015, 23:01   #322
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Re: Hunter sinks at Catalina due to bow cleat failure

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I don't think Kenomac has any Hunter withdrawal symptoms. I think he said something about he tried a Hunter once, but he didn't inhale.

Or something like that.
No, not inhaling was when his head clogged up and he found there was no access to the hoses to make a repair. Maybe all those cushions were in the way. Nah, probably just bad seamanship . . . again.
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Old 06-01-2015, 23:32   #323
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Re: Hunter sinks at Catalina due to bow cleat failure

Poop


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Old 07-01-2015, 00:14   #324
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Re: Hunter sinks at Catalina due to bow cleat failure

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Poop
BINGO!
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Old 07-01-2015, 01:56   #325
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Re: Hunter sinks at Catalina due to bow cleat failure

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Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
Nah, I'll pass, you're the one attempting to differentiate them, after all... Frankly, I just don't see that sharp a distinction between the two. And relative to this discussion, both would seem to involve spending a fair amount of time anchoring, often in somewhat unprotected anchorages or open roadsteads, which would likely require a robust ground tackle system to assure self-sufficiency... But perhaps that's just me...

However, if indeed there is such a "clear difference" between the two, and SEQUITUR's trip exemplifies "extended voyaging" in your mind, does that imply that Michael & Edi's voyage did not entail any "bluewater cruising"?

:-)
I don't find it difficult to make a distinction. To me:

Bluewater cruising is just that - sailing across oceans, for most that would mean the cocnut milk run (which despite its name is still an achievement if you manage it all the way round) Here, a prudent skipper with close eye on the weather forecasts etc will not experience savage conditions (hence the name Coconut milk run).

Extended voyaging to me implies cruising outside the milk run. Here we're talking southern ocean, round the capes, or the northern ocean (greenland/iceland/etc)

I would not expect any production boat to be ready for "extended voyaging" withou serious modifications (much the same as I would not expect a production Land Rover to ready for a trans sahara/africa trip). The conditions experienced in both the southern and northern oceans are extreme and the production boat companies simply don't sell very many boats to this exceedingly small market.

So why not disregard these extreme markets? No production manufacturer will tell you that their boat is ready right off the line for this type of sailing (voyaging).

For the coconut milk run, most production boats, including hunters, will make it, assuming they are skippered by a responsible person.

I've sailed my Jeanneau throughout the Baltic, Kattegat, and Skagerrak, including in force 8 & 9 and I've yet to feel the slightest bit nervous about the boat. Lest we forget, there are thousands of these boats sailing around inthe North sea/norway and the Biscay. Apparently they seem to survive without issues. We plan on an RTW in it, and yes we are making modifications, but that mainly has to do with there only being two of us. We are not making modifications to the basic boat.

I don't know Hunters, since we don't see very many of them over here, but our "hunter" is the Bavaria - we have lots of Bavaria bashers here in europe.

I owned one and never had any issues with it whatsoever.
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:04   #326
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Re: Hunter sinks at Catalina due to bow cleat failure

You have probably seen a few Hunters over there: they are sold in the UK as Legends. The Hunter name was already trademarked.

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Old 07-01-2015, 04:42   #327
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Re: Hunter sinks at Catalina due to bow cleat failure

Maybe the title of the thread should have been "Hunter sinks at Catalina due to Beneteau", just to be fair.


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Old 07-01-2015, 05:19   #328
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Re: Hunter sinks at Catalina due to bow cleat failure

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Glad you posted this. I do the same but after a few comments on this thread was starting to wonder if I was being foolish. I do have chocks on either side of the bow but if I run the snubber through a chock the boat sails madly at anchor. If I run my snubber over the bow roller it's rock steady and the roller is pretty substantial. Haven't weathered a hurricane but a midnight thunderstorm with 40+ gusts wasn't a problem.

I may try a bridle through both chocks to see how that effects the sailing issue.
Skip,

Quick tangent for you re the 422. Your thought is exactly what I do. I have a snubber that I tie to the chain and then run up to each of the bow cleats. She seems to sit to the anchor fairly well with little sailing as long as we get our standard 5-7:1 scope out.
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Old 07-01-2015, 06:04   #329
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Re: Hunter sinks at Catalina due to bow cleat failure

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Skip,

Quick tangent for you re the 422. Your thought is exactly what I do. I have a snubber that I tie to the chain and then run up to each of the bow cleats. She seems to sit to the anchor fairly well with little sailing as long as we get our standard 5-7:1 scope out.
We do the same and have had no problems. Dual snubber bridle run through both anchor rollers with chaffe gear, then run to both forward deck mooring cleats. Otherwise, the bow would get chewed up on the anchor chain due to sailing at anchor.
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Old 07-01-2015, 06:34   #330
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Re: Hunter sinks at Catalina due to bow cleat failure

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
I don't find it difficult to make a distinction. To me:

Bluewater cruising is just that - sailing across oceans, for most that would mean the cocnut milk run (which despite its name is still an achievement if you manage it all the way round) Here, a prudent skipper with close eye on the weather forecasts etc will not experience savage conditions (hence the name Coconut milk run).

Extended voyaging to me implies cruising outside the milk run. Here we're talking southern ocean, round the capes, or the northern ocean (greenland/iceland/etc)

I would not expect any production boat to be ready for "extended voyaging" withou serious modifications (much the same as I would not expect a production Land Rover to ready for a trans sahara/africa trip). The conditions experienced in both the southern and northern oceans are extreme and the production boat companies simply don't sell very many boats to this exceedingly small market.

So why not disregard these extreme markets? No production manufacturer will tell you that their boat is ready right off the line for this type of sailing (voyaging).

For the coconut milk run, most production boats, including hunters, will make it, assuming they are skippered by a responsible person.

I've sailed my Jeanneau throughout the Baltic, Kattegat, and Skagerrak, including in force 8 & 9 and I've yet to feel the slightest bit nervous about the boat. Lest we forget, there are thousands of these boats sailing around inthe North sea/norway and the Biscay. Apparently they seem to survive without issues. We plan on an RTW in it, and yes we are making modifications, but that mainly has to do with there only being two of us. We are not making modifications to the basic boat.

I don't know Hunters, since we don't see very many of them over here, but our "hunter" is the Bavaria - we have lots of Bavaria bashers here in europe.

I owned one and never had any issues with it whatsoever.
Fair enough, that seems a very good explanation and reasonable distinction to make... I suppose I'd been thinking of "extended" more in terms of duration, rather than a geographical sense... Even a Milk Run go-around seems like "extended voyaging", to me, as it entails a cruise of far longer duration and geographical scope than I've ever been able to manage... :-)

What strikes me as being somewhat futile about making such a distinction, however, is looking at the scores of yacht losses or abandonments over recent years... Very few of them (at least the ones we hear about) seem to involve boats doing "extended voyaging" as per your definition, but rather are mostly confined to yachts sailing well-beaten paths, and often essentially in coastal waters... On this side of the pond, boats are getting into trouble or being ditched with seemingly increasing regularity along the route between the East coast and the Caribbean, for instance... Of course, the numbers of people sailing such routes far exceeds those venturing to places like Svalbard or Patagonia, but one can't help but be struck by the high percentage of incidents that occur by those engaged in the far more 'pedestrian' activity you've defined as "Bluewater Cruising"...

And, of course, the incident that sparked this thread, occurred in one of the busiest, most commonly visited destinations in the entire US, a mere "26 Miles Across the Sea"...

:-)
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