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Old 24-11-2015, 17:45   #16
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Re: hunter legend 37.5 or beneteau first 375

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Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
In part, my point was that any well maintained boat will serve you better than a poorly maintained wallowed battle ship. I could attach a picture of Hunters laying at anchor in the S Pacific which, according to the internet experts, can't get there. But I think you already 'got the picture'.
Thanks i totally agree. I have also read lots a bad things said by people that obviously dont know. It would be like me giving people advise on here without the first hand knowledge.
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Old 24-11-2015, 18:07   #17
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Re: hunter legend 37.5 or beneteau first 375

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Thanks i totally agree. I have also read lots a bad things said by people that obviously dont know. It would be like me giving people advise on here without the first hand knowledge.
The reason I don't frequent this forum much anymore is because ive found an abundance of Internet experts here who have no such reluctance. It's sometimes difficult to separate those who are trying to help from those trying to sound authoritative.
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Old 24-11-2015, 20:10   #18
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Re: hunter legend 37.5 or beneteau first 375

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I wrote this once in response to a similar question:

As I type, I am asking why get involved in such a discussion but here goes regardless. To quality my opinion, I should state that I have had the great opportunity to make a circumnav a number of years ago and throughout that experience, never, ever heard people actually doing it make some of the totally irrational statements I've read here on the internet, seemingly by people who have no clue what offshore sailing actually entails. I may be incorrect in this presumption but the vast majority of comments derogatory toward any mfg including Hunter seem to support my belief that these folks have never done it. Suprisingly, that minor detail seems to escape them as they appear quite content to speak authoritatively regardless.

To the point, no where, at no time and under no circumstance have I, during that trip, did I ever hea a conversation among cruisers criticizing a particular boat brand. The obvious reason is that we were all too busy complaining about breakdowns, repairs, spare parts, provisioning, water and fuel supplies, etc... regardless of what boat or who made it. Seemingly, the most problematic boats were the so-called gold-platers made to the proverbial highest standards with so many systems that problems were epidemic. We saw every conceivable type, size and make boat imaginable and it was abundantly clear that no generalitiy could be made about any of them. They were all there and floating nicely at anchor in places most people never heard of.

To do so here is only indicative of one thing - that the authors simply don't know any better.

In a storm, it was FAR more important how the crew managed the boat than who made it. It was FAR more important how old the sails were than who made them. Same with engines, rigs, masts, and lest I forget, coral can't read the nameplate when chewing up fiberglass.

About the most curcial ingredient I observed in determining if people were having a successful cruise was the happiness of the crew so whether your wife, girlfriend, life partner, etc... likes a boat made by Hunter, Catalina, Shannon or Mickey Mouse is equally if not more important than the grid structure, depth of the bilge, keel shape or rudder design.

Blanket criticisms of any boat brand such as we read in other posts above is ridiculous.
for the most part, I agree in particular about the importance of maintenance and the importance of a well trained crew. that being said however I will make a few comments based on my experiences.

1. build quality is build quality. no way around it. both in materials used, care,skill and attention to detail of the builders and 3rd party equipment installed at the factory. while all boats sold in the US have to meet a set of basic standards there are those that will simply meet a standard and then there are those to exceed those standards. there's a reason why say a hunter or a catalina is going to be tens of thousands of dollars less than an equivalent size say oyster.


2. in some cases I think it is fair to make blanket statements about brands provided one actually has the knowledge to back it up. I make most of my living delivering boats for people so I've spent a lot of time offshore on a good chunk of the model ranges from most of the big manufacturers, after a while you start to see patterns in various makers/models.

also as an aside I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss everyone on here out of hand. don't fall into the notion that simply because someone hasn't made a lap around the globe that they haven't put in some serious miles offshore. not trying to be confrontational or rude. it's just a thought is all.
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Old 24-11-2015, 20:30   #19
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Re: hunter legend 37.5 or beneteau first 375

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for the most part, I agree in particular about the importance of maintenance and the importance of a well trained crew. that being said however I will make a few comments based on my experiences.

1. build quality is build quality. no way around it. both in materials used, care,skill and attention to detail of the builders and 3rd party equipment installed at the factory. while all boats sold in the US have to meet a set of basic standards there are those that will simply meet a standard and then there are those to exceed those standards. there's a reason why say a hunter or a catalina is going to be tens of thousands of dollars less than an equivalent size say oyster.


2. in some cases I think it is fair to make blanket statements about brands provided one actually has the knowledge to back it up. I make most of my living delivering boats for people so I've spent a lot of time offshore on a good chunk of the model ranges from most of the big manufacturers, after a while you start to see patterns in various makers/models.

also as an aside I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss everyone on here out of hand. don't fall into the notion that simply because someone hasn't made a lap around the globe that they haven't put in some serious miles offshore. not trying to be confrontational or rude. it's just a thought is all.
So you have a lot of experience with several brands, thats what im after. Do you think the beneteau first series is a good choice? Is there any other boats you would recommend in the 40000 to 50000 range that are safe and have good sailing performance?
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Old 24-11-2015, 20:44   #20
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Re: hunter legend 37.5 or beneteau first 375

I wanted to add all the posts have been great and helpful. They are much appreciated.
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Old 24-11-2015, 21:11   #21
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Re: hunter legend 37.5 or beneteau first 375

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So you have a lot of experience with several brands, thats what im after. Do you think the beneteau first series is a good choice? Is there any other boats you would recommend in the 40000 to 50000 range that are safe and have good sailing performance?
yes the first series are good boats in their price range. a little slim on storage space for my tastes but thats for you to decide if it's an issue to you. on some of the larger models, the first 45 and 50 in particular the deck gear (winches, cluthes and blocks) are under spec'd from the factory. the 40.7 has a smaller rudder than it should, for one reason or another they came from the factory with a different, smaller rudder than the one Farr designed for the boat, not a huge deal but they do take more rudder input to track well in a seaway.between the first series and the oceanis series the first series has a higher emphasis on performance than comfort, the galleys are smaller, tankage is smaller ice boxes are smaller, battery tubs are smaller etc. now thats not to say they're not comfortable or suitable as cruisers. the oceanis series is a less performance oriented line and has more emphasis on cruising. either way be careful when shopping for a beneteau, especially down in florida as a lot of them have been used in the various charter fleets meaning they've been run hard and depending on which charter fleet they came out of the maintenance done on them isn't always stellar, just bear it in mind.

other brands to look into the your price range? few brands/models I would look at:

C&C. very good quality canadian built boat. in your price range and size range I would look at the landfall 38. performance cruiser, well laid out, good storage and good performance. $28k-$35k is about what you'll see them listed for on average. C&C's are balsa cored so a careful survey is key to make sure you don't have a wet deck or hull core.

cal 40. kind of a legendary boat. more a performance boat than a bespoke cruiser but still very livable. pro surfer liz clark has been living aboard hers for a while now. check her out if you want.
Swell Voyage

bristol 40: very well built boats, I've personally spent a good chunk of time on these. classic good looks, similar to the hinckley bermuda 40 in looks. a bit narrow so interior living space isn't huge.
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Old 24-11-2015, 23:10   #22
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Re: hunter legend 37.5 or beneteau first 375

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Originally Posted by frozenhawaiian View Post
yes the first series are good boats in their price range. a little slim on storage space for my tastes but thats for you to decide if it's an issue to you. on some of the larger models, the first 45 and 50 in particular the deck gear (winches, cluthes and blocks) are under spec'd from the factory. the 40.7 has a smaller rudder than it should, for one reason or another they came from the factory with a different, smaller rudder than the one Farr designed for the boat, not a huge deal but they do take more rudder input to track well in a seaway.between the first series and the oceanis series the first series has a higher emphasis on performance than comfort, the galleys are smaller, tankage is smaller ice boxes are smaller, battery tubs are smaller etc. now thats not to say they're not comfortable or suitable as cruisers. the oceanis series is a less performance oriented line and has more emphasis on cruising. either way be careful when shopping for a beneteau, especially down in florida as a lot of them have been used in the various charter fleets meaning they've been run hard and depending on which charter fleet they came out of the maintenance done on them isn't always stellar, just bear it in mind.

other brands to look into the your price range? few brands/models I would look at:

C&C. very good quality canadian built boat. in your price range and size range I would look at the landfall 38. performance cruiser, well laid out, good storage and good performance. $28k-$35k is about what you'll see them listed for on average. C&C's are balsa cored so a careful survey is key to make sure you don't have a wet deck or hull core.

cal 40. kind of a legendary boat. more a performance boat than a bespoke cruiser but still very livable. pro surfer liz clark has been living aboard hers for a while now. check her out if you want.
Swell Voyage

bristol 40: very well built boats, I've personally spent a good chunk of time on these. classic good looks, similar to the hinckley bermuda 40 in looks. a bit narrow so interior living space isn't huge.
thank you. One more question and then ill leave you alone lol. What do you think of the oceanis series? the oceanis 390 in particular.I like the cal 40 and the swell voyage is cool.
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Old 25-11-2015, 05:34   #23
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Re: hunter legend 37.5 or beneteau first 375

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thank you. One more question and then ill leave you alone lol. What do you think of the oceanis series? the oceanis 390 in particular.I like the cal 40 and the swell voyage is cool.
it's no bother. the build quality is the same for the first series and the oceanis series. the difference is the first series is a more performance oriented line and the oceanis series is a more cruising oriented line. I don't have any personal experience with the oceanis 390, sorry
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Old 25-11-2015, 08:39   #24
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Re: hunter legend 37.5 or beneteau first 375

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...What do you think of the Oceanis series? the oceanis 390 in particular.....
We have owned and cruised a 1986 First 42 for 13 years. Never-the-less, we go to the St. Pete and Miami sail boat shows every year to see what's new and compare the latest offerings with our boat (we'll stick with what we have Thank You). As to the difference between the Oceanis and Firsts, at one of the shows my (much) better half observed that the Oceanis seems to have been designed to appeal to "ladies" while the First more so to men.

FWIW...
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Old 25-11-2015, 09:23   #25
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Re: hunter legend 37.5 or beneteau first 375

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We bought a H33.5 new in 88. Inland lake sailed her for 25 years and she held up fine. Moved up to a Pearson 424 ketch for ocean sailing. No comparison. In my humble opinion, the Hunter is great for inland and coastal sailing. Big water needs a sturdier boat.
As someone else stated recently...every boat is a compromise. A "sturdier" boat is likely heavier and slower too. If there were a perfect boat, we would all have that one perfect boat.

Certainly I would choose a different boat for a circumnavigation than for the thorny path. And don't forget about money...I'll take an undesirable boat I can afford over staying ashore. Yes, its all about compromise.

I crossed an ocean on a Swan 48. Good boat for that. But as soon as we got to Antigua, I really wished I was on a Hunter.
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Old 25-11-2015, 10:31   #26
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Re: hunter legend 37.5 or beneteau first 375

I own a 1990 legend 37.5. I ssil the Chesapeake bay. I also have sailed many a Beneteau in Caribbean charter. I have chartered for 10 years or more. This is my third season with my Hunter. The main reasons I bought this boat are excellent light air performance, excellent sailing ability in general, ease of single handling, and enormous room down below. We have a queen centerline berth aft, a double vberth, a queen setee and a single sea berth. We have a deep fridge, three burner stove. There is one head, and a sink with running water in the vberth. We have 20 gallons of poop water holding, 35 gallons of diesel with a burn rate of .5 gal/hr at 2000 RPM and we move at 5.5 to 6 knots. We have 75 gallons of water. With two house batteries and Led lights and frigo boat fridge I have 120 amp hours of power. This allows us to go two days without charging.

As for sailing, I was put last weekend in 30 knots and eight foot seas. Went with double reefed jib and hit 7.5 knots. When I added double reefed main, we hit 8.2 knots, but that was tough to control so dropped back to Jib alone.

The room below is awesome. I have a wife, three kids and two dogs. Everyone has a place. We can cruise all of for extended periods of time. The bow area has lots of room for lounging under sail.

She is tender, though. I reef early. The CNG stove for some is an issue. I rest easy that the gas is lighter than air and I don't need a solenoid to cook or power. I happen to sail in an area where CNG is available. The yanks hold 3000 psi and we burn about 100 psi per hour of cooking. Grab an extra tank for the Caribbean, and you'd be set, or not. When I go where there is no CNG, I have a magma grill on the stern rail, and i use an Original 5100 heat pal for heat and to boil water.

Here is a link:
https://youtu.be/I5MPtzrWAXk

This is from last memorial day, but look at the rest of the videos and you will get a sense of how versatile the boat is. I will be posting videos from last weekend, soon.

Lastly, rather than disparaging the Bene, I will tell you why I picked this boat over the Bene first. This boat was the perfect mix of performance, livability, comfort, and price point. I don't like the way the Bene's look down below, and I always found Bene's heavier than their counterparts and therefore less viable in low wind. My legend 37.5 will ghost along on 2 knots with the asym up. We were sailing against a new Bene 50 in about 10 knots and we smoked them by more than an hour into Annapolis.

Best of luck to you! I think you'd be very happy on either. After all, you'll be out sailing, but my vote is for the Hunter.

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Old 25-11-2015, 10:52   #27
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Re: hunter legend 37.5 or beneteau first 375

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I own a 1990 legend 37.5. I ssil the Chesapeake bay. I also have sailed many a Beneteau in Caribbean charter. I have chartered for 10 years or more. This is my third season with my Hunter. The main reasons I bought this boat are excellent light air performance, excellent sailing ability in general, ease of single handling, and enormous room down below. We have a queen centerline berth aft, a double vberth, a queen setee and a single sea berth. We have a deep fridge, three burner stove. There is one head, and a sink with running water in the vberth. We have 20 gallons of poop water holding, 35 gallons of diesel with a burn rate of .5 gal/hr at 2000 RPM and we move at 5.5 to 6 knots. We have 75 gallons of water. With two house batteries and Led lights and frigo boat fridge I have 120 amp hours of power. This allows us to go two days without charging.

As for sailing, I was put last weekend in 30 knots and eight foot seas. Went with double reefed jib and hit 7.5 knots. When I added double reefed main, we hit 8.2 knots, but that was tough to control so dropped back to Jib alone.

The room below is awesome. I have a wife, three kids and two dogs. Everyone has a place. We can cruise all of for extended periods of time. The bow area has lots of room for lounging under sail.

She is tender, though. I reef early. The CNG stove for some is an issue. I rest easy that the gas is lighter than air and I don't need a solenoid to cook or power. I happen to sail in an area where CNG is available. The yanks hold 3000 psi and we burn about 100 psi per hour of cooking. Grab an extra tank for the Caribbean, and you'd be set, or not. When I go where there is no CNG, I have a magma grill on the stern rail, and i use an Original 5100 heat pal for heat and to boil water.

Here is a link:
https://youtu.be/I5MPtzrWAXk

This is from last memorial day, but look at the rest of the videos and you will get a sense of how versatile the boat is. I will be posting videos from last weekend, soon.

Lastly, rather than disparaging the Bene, I will tell you why I picked this boat over the Bene first. This boat was the perfect mix of performance, livability, comfort, and price point. I don't like the way the Bene's look down below, and I always found Bene's heavier than their counterparts and therefore less viable in low wind. My legend 37.5 will ghost along on 2 knots with the asym up. We were sailing against a new Bene 50 in about 10 knots and we smoked them by more than an hour into Annapolis.

Best of luck to you! I think you'd be very happy on either. After all, you'll be out sailing, but my vote is for the Hunter.

Sent from my XT1254 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Ya I love the hunter interior and the sugar scoop transom especially since I have dogs. I just dont know about that boat in heavy weather offshore. On the other hand I read about s/v sequitur a hunter 49 newer model going around cape horn. So confusing.
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Old 25-11-2015, 11:14   #28
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Re: hunter legend 37.5 or beneteau first 375

Regarding the heavy weather piece, we have been in some heavy weather in this boat. I find that being lighter, try he waves go under us easier than pounding into them as I have in heavier boats.

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Old 28-11-2015, 00:27   #29
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Re: hunter legend 37.5 or beneteau first 375

does anyone know where to find the angle of vanishing stability number and the stix number for different boats?
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Old 28-11-2015, 10:15   #30
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Re: hunter legend 37.5 or beneteau first 375

I found this page http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/avs_calculation.htm. I am not smart enough to know this in my head.

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