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Old 05-08-2012, 19:21   #106
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by CnC40sailor View Post
So please give me examples of their fantastic laminate process that would cause me to find my friends wrong.
Never said it was a "fantastic" laminate process. Only that is was and still is used extensively with no problem - Catalina, which is a popular brand, still lays up all their hulls using guns. Why do you use absurd and unfounded examples to prove your argument?

In some cases, no amount of fact, experience or knowledge can change some people's mind. This is one. Believe whatever you prefer but don't mislead other people or provide uninformed opinion- unless that's your objective...

This and other sailing forums are intended to provide knowledgeable advice and expertise to those seeking it.
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Old 05-08-2012, 22:50   #107
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Originally Posted by S/V Illusion
Never said it was a "fantastic" laminate process. Only that is was and still is used extensively with no problem - Catalina, which is a popular brand, still lays up all their hulls using guns. Why do you use absurd and unfounded examples to prove your argument?

In some cases, no amount of fact, experience or knowledge can change some people's mind.
Thank you for showing your ignorance in its most blatant of forms. Chopper guns have the worst strength to weight ratio of any fiberglass laminate. Catalina uses it only to save money for the cabin, like hunter, but I wouldn't expect you to know that.
The new C&C'S, which are in the same price range use unidirectional glass, which by contrast, has the strongest weight to strength ratio. To help bulk it up and keep prices lower, couple the aforementioned layup with mat glass, which isn't ideal but help lower prices. The cabin is only average, but it is a sailboat first.

I think you should follow your own advice. Your bleak and meager description of anything are your way to cover up your lack of knowledge. This was made aware to me when you compared the open 60s to hunters. Please save people from your desperate plea to seem knowledgeable, quite frankly its pathetic.
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Old 05-08-2012, 23:03   #108
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

Countdown..10..9..8..7.. this thread is going.......going.....
For fkuk sake, the ref has gone for a beer!
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Old 06-08-2012, 01:48   #109
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I'm thinking of buying a Hunter 54 from the states and hire Jessica Watson as delivery skipper to sail her downunder, of course I'll give her an AK 47 for protections against pirates.Opinions please.
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Old 06-08-2012, 02:55   #110
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

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I'm thinking of buying a Hunter 54 from the states and hire Jessica Watson as delivery skipper to sail her downunder, of course I'll give her an AK 47 for protections against pirates.Opinions please.
You forgot the all important.. How will she anchor once she gets there? You Ignoramus!

And to (some) other posters in this thread: love is blind, folks.

Ultimately, it is always the Skipper's call in any boat, some may just require more diligence when looking for weather windows... Lighten up, people.
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Old 06-08-2012, 03:02   #111
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Originally Posted by mrm
You forgot the all important.. How will she anchor once she gets there? You Ignoramus!

And to (some) other posters in this thread: love is blind, folks.

Ultimately, it is always the Skipper's call in any boat, some may just require more diligence when looking for weather windows... Lighten up, people.
Doh, sorry a rocna, made in Korea out of Chinese steel of course, or is it the other way around?
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:49   #112
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by CnC40sailor View Post
Thank you for showing your ignorance in its most blatant of forms. Chopper guns have the worst strength to weight ratio of any fiberglass laminate. Catalina uses it only to save money for the cabin, like hunter, but I wouldn't expect you to know that.
The new C&C'S, which are in the same price range use unidirectional glass, which by contrast, has the strongest weight to strength ratio. To help bulk it up and keep prices lower, couple the aforementioned layup with mat glass, which isn't ideal but help lower prices. The cabin is only average, but it is a sailboat first.

I think you should follow your own advice. Your bleak and meager description of anything are your way to cover up your lack of knowledge. This was made aware to me when you compared the open 60s to hunters. Please save people from your desperate plea to seem knowledgeable, quite frankly its pathetic.
You won’t get a straight answer out of him because his knowledge base is limited. He obviously never worked in the manufacturing sector and a statement such as “Never said it was a "fantastic" laminate process. Only that is was and still is used extensively with no problem” is the definition of ignorance.

As you mentioned the chopper gun method is used because it cuts costs. However, this is done at the expense of the boats integrity. Testimonials are abundant revealing boats built with this method being unable to stand up to the elements. Apparently these testimonials are lost on Illusion and Don Lucas.

Hunter and Catalina have no problem justifying this process. They are in the business to make money. If they had better quality control maybe it wouldn’t be an issue. But aside from the lay-up process, manufacturers use gimmicks to lure in customs. The Hunter 54 with its open door garage in the transom is an example of a gimmick that turned into a major design flaw by moving the rudder 12’ forward.

Let’s face it, any prospective buyer of a Hunter 54 after reading through this thread or those on Sailnet and Scuttlebutt will undoubtedly give pause to the idea that this is a cruising boat for ocean passages, unless of course they are seduced by her graceful lines (debatable) and thoroughbred sailing qualities.

Intelligent circumspect individuals who have examined all the facts and are going to risk life and family crossing oceans will pass her by.

It’s a buyers market out there with a lot to choose from. Choose wisely…

RT
PS If you are looking for a fast, initially inexpensive coastal cruiser, she is a candidate. Just make sure you have a hefty bank account.
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:20   #113
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by surfingminniwinni View Post
I'm thinking of buying a Hunter 54 from the states and hire Jessica Watson as delivery skipper to sail her downunder, of course I'll give her an AK 47 for protections against pirates.Opinions please.
Please take vtcaspo along for ballast. He might also learn some manners and even a bit about boats but it's doubtful
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:39   #114
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

Ok, I keep seeing references to chopper gun layup for the H-54. I saw no evidence of the when we worked on the one we rebuilt after the Feds cut holes all over her. I saw normal layups of ombo and mat. Chopper gun layups are very easy to spot from the texture. Any of you folks actually ever lay up glass? Hmm, let's see, combo or unidirectional first followed by layers and layers of mat for waterproofing. Mat, oh yes, layers of random directional glass fibers forming a sheet. Sounds like what happens with a chopper gun. If you think ALL of the glass in the C&C is unidirectional, you are sadly mistaken. Now back to your regularly scheduled train wreck of a shyte fight thread....
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:12   #115
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by CharlieCobra View Post
Ok, I keep seeing references to chopper gun layup for the H-54. I saw no evidence of the when we worked on the one we rebuilt after the Feds cut holes all over her. I saw normal layups of ombo and mat.
I expect the response you should expect is ........... you lie!
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:15   #116
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieCobra View Post
Ok, I keep seeing references to chopper gun layup for the H-54. I saw no evidence of the when we worked on the one we rebuilt after the Feds cut holes all over her. I saw normal layups of ombo and mat. Chopper gun layups are very easy to spot from the texture.
Hey, a comment from someone that has actually seen the guts of an H54. What a concept.

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Originally Posted by CharlieCobra View Post
Mat, oh yes, layers of random directional glass fibers forming a sheet. Sounds like what happens with a chopper gun.


As I understand fiberglass layups, cloth for strength, mat or chopper gun for thickness and rigidity.

Haven't seen anyone addresses the glass/resin ratio which does have just a little to do with the strength and quality of the layup.
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:03   #117
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

No doubt. Dry glass is brittle, flaky junk, no matter the type.
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:51   #118
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

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IT'S A BOAT PEOPLE!!! A BOAT!!! NOT JACK THE RIPPER!
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:14   #119
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

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No doubt. Dry glass is brittle, flaky junk, no matter the type.
So you saw the 54 from the inside out. How did the layup look in that regard?
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:16   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieCobra
Ok, I keep seeing references to chopper gun layup for the H-54. I saw no evidence of the when we worked on the one we rebuilt after the Feds cut holes all over her. I saw normal layups of ombo and mat. Chopper gun layups are very easy to spot from the texture. Any of you folks actually ever lay up glass? Hmm, let's see, combo or unidirectional first followed by layers and layers of mat for waterproofing. Mat, oh yes, layers of random directional glass fibers forming a sheet. Sounds like what happens with a chopper gun. If you think ALL of the glass in the C&C is unidirectional, you are sadly mistaken. Now back to your regularly scheduled train wreck of a shyte fight thread....
I said the unidirectional glass was coupled with mat, which of course means most of the laminate is not unidirectional.
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