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Old 04-08-2012, 09:34   #61
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by CharlieCobra View Post
They went bankrupt because of the two powerboat divisions that the parent company Luhrs, had that were under performing. Not because of the sailboat division.
Correct, however I don't think even Hunter is doing great. I live a few miles from the Hunter plant and as one of the larger businesses in the area their fortunes are followed closely in the local news.

While local news reports claim they're doing OK I think business must be way down. I used to drive by the plant and always saw 5-10 large boats in the yard ready to haul to dealers. The last couple of years it was almost always empty. Also they have laid off most of the work force and are running on a fraction of what they did in the past.

May be making money but bet it's not much.
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:38   #62
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
If the keel really "fell off", I'd attribute that to your choice of commissioning yard, not the manufacturer. I've read extensively in the Hunter forum and can't recall ever seeing "well documented" criticisms of keels falling off - can you cite a specific example or link to the thread to which you refer????????????????????????

My point was not to dismiss your or other opinions entirely; rather, to point out that ANY generality is ALWAYS a stupid thing to say in any context.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltempleton
The keel bolts on our Hunter 450 have come loose. The yard says we have to remove the keel, inspect the bolts and reinstall the keel. This is a very expensive process. Anyone else have experience with this? Is this process necessary?
This turned out to be an expensive mess. The yard insisted on removing the keel and it's a good thing they did. There was very little bedding compound remaining and all of the keel bolts were bathed in salt water. The aft keel bolt was seriously eroded from galvanic corrosion and had to be replaced. The design of the top of the keel is very poor and, in my opinion, can't be relied upon to keep water away from the bolts. There is a flat mating surface about 3/4" wide around the top of the keel and adjacent to the keel bolts. Inside of the 3/4" mating surface are shallow depressions or wells that were filled with foam. The boat yard removed the foam and filled these depressions with a loaded epoxy cement so that now the entire top of the keel is flat and can be used as a sealing surface. Then they reassembled it all with lots of bedding compound. I think it should have been made flat in the first place.

The bottom line - I think this is a weakness in the 450 design and I'd urge all 450 owners to periodically retorque their keel bolts so they don't have to go through what we experienced. Other Hunter owners might wish to check theirs also.


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Old 04-08-2012, 10:04   #63
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

1 boat having a problem does not mean that a whole line or all boats from a manufacturer are bad!

If we used the very rare odd problem, every product in the world would be considered as crap!
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Old 04-08-2012, 14:38   #64
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltempleton
The keel bolts on our Hunter 450 have come loose. The yard says we have to remove the keel, inspect the bolts and reinstall the keel. This is a very expensive process. Anyone else have experience with this? Is this process necessary?
This turned out to be an expensive mess. The yard insisted on removing the keel and it's a good thing they did. There was very little bedding compound remaining and all of the keel bolts were bathed in salt water. The aft keel bolt was seriously eroded from galvanic corrosion and had to be replaced. The design of the top of the keel is very poor and, in my opinion, can't be relied upon to keep water away from the bolts. There is a flat mating surface about 3/4" wide around the top of the keel and adjacent to the keel bolts. Inside of the 3/4" mating surface are shallow depressions or wells that were filled with foam. The boat yard removed the foam and filled these depressions with a loaded epoxy cement so that now the entire top of the keel is flat and can be used as a sealing surface. Then they reassembled it all with lots of bedding compound. I think it should have been made flat in the first place.

The bottom line - I think this is a weakness in the 450 design and I'd urge all 450 owners to periodically retorque their keel bolts so they don't have to go through what we experienced. Other Hunter owners might wish to check theirs also.


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Seems like this could be a concern with any boat that has a keel attached via bolts. I know years ago I had a Catalina 25 Fin Keel, and when checking the torque on the bolts one snapped. Luckily I had just bought a trailer and was able to use the trailer adjustment pads to lift the boat off the keel, replace the bolts, then reattach the keel. This was a lot of work, but very interesting as I had never done that before. I gained a lot of fiberglass experience owning that boat, as I also used the West System to repair soft spots in the deck.
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Old 04-08-2012, 14:51   #65
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

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Quote:
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digging pretty deep to find a problem?
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Old 04-08-2012, 22:58   #66
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Quote:
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Baseless implications like lack of quality have no place here.
Divisive, malignant people have no place here.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:44   #67
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by capta View Post
Gary Mayo
Yes, of course it is my opinion. But therefor, it is the opinion of someone who has been a professional mariner for over 50 years, including a circumnavigation under sail & numerous trans-Atlantic/ Pacific crossings. I couldn't give a rat's a** whether Hunter is trying to come out of bankruptcy or how many "American jobs" are lost, if just one person doesn't buy a Hunter and loses their life at sea because of poor manufacturing.
As a lake boat go for it. As a day sailor or weekender close to shore & help; buy a Hunter.
Offshore boats do not equate in any way to apples! A misinformed buyer who buys a boat not capable of the use the buyer intends (now please, tell me you think most yacht brokers are more honest than the stereotypical used car salesman), no matter how it's treated or best intentions, still has the wrong boat.
I hate to tell you this, buddy, but my opinion of Hunters is shared by EVERYONE I've met cruising here in the Caribbean, but of course we're ALL wrong because of some apple theory you have.
I am a capable captain with lots of experience & I believe I could take any Hunter just about anywhere in the world safely, with some luck, but I know when to reef, how hard to push a piece of junk like a Morgan OI-41 (600 mile delivery directly to weather from Great Inagua to St. Thomas) or a Hunter, or Irwin, etc.
I do not sell boats, I do not derive pleasure from putting down manufacturers, but there are many folks out there who need information from experienced sailors like myself to make informed decisions on their dream boat purchase.
Please, next winter come on down here to the Windward Islands & rent a Hunter bareboat during the Christmas winds. I'll sail my Pearson with you & if you keep up with me I bet you'll break a lot of stuff aboard & I'll not break a thing. If I'm wrong, then I'll buy you & your whole crew dinner at Tommy's in Bequia, deal?
This thread caught my eye because I used to be the buyer for Allmand Boats in Miami. Hunter put us out of buisness in the early 80's with their jiff pop hull production. Back in the 80's, the OP mentiond that circa, they were all built using chopper guns. STAY AWAY!.

The Allmand 31' which was a morphed Charlie Morgan design was hand laid fiberglass and very stout. However, because of the high freeboard in the bow the early models suffered oil canning and were recalled and fixed using an additional layer of fab-mat. You can expect oil canning in a Hunter built in the 80's. BTW this is not characteristic of just Hunters. A Person of similar size if I remember correctly was abandoned in way to Bermuda because during heavy seas the whole boat started oil canning and freaked out the crew. Now think how bad that had to be if the crew abandoned a boat that wasn't taking on water.

The Hunter that when around the world, correct me if I'm wrong had an erector set of supports on the interior holding it together. NO Hunter of that size did that voyage stock off the line. Come to think of it the owners son did a similar voyage. The boat was leaking like a seive and the keel was ready to fall off.

As far as hitting a container, however rare that may be, cruisers know or should I say should know the potential is out there. That's why the safest hull would be a full keel that would allow you to slide up and over the container or bounce off with minor damage.

I would challenge the assumption that any boat would go down having so struck. My Slocum 37' or other heavy displacement full keel boats will fair a whole lot better than modern design fin keels in this situation.

OP, if you are looking to go off shore consider the design very carefully and find a manufacturer that builds to a high standard. This is not to say that Hunter hasn't changed their design spec's. But 80's Hunters are to be avoided.

RT
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:21   #68
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

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Typical thread, just looking for some quick info. I am looking at a few 1981-1983 Hunter 54's, seems like for a production Hunter it will do well crossing oceans. Any thoughts?

Since the responses turned into the normal Hunter bashing, if you are still interested take a look here.

HunterOwners.com

just like car models you can not talk about Hunter based on a single model, all you can talk about is that model
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:43   #69
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
Since the responses turned into the normal Hunter bashing, if you are still interested take a look here.

HunterOwners.com

just like car models you can not talk about Hunter based on a single model, all you can talk about is that model
Don you are wrong. Circa early 80's they were ALL built using chopper guns. They are known, at least amongst boat builders to be the FIAT of boats (F)ix (I)t (A)gain (T) ony. You want to go offshore chose wisely. 80's Hunters WHATEVER model is not a good choice for offshore sailing.

BTW, the notion that this is a Hunter bashing thread to bring the price down for the company is so much HS. The OP wanted sound advice and he is getting it.

RT
PS Capta knows what he is talking about. Best advice is to listen to experience, for that matter talk to some delivery captains. I know Capta KNOWS what he is talking about because he singled out the OI 41 as one of the worst sailing boats out there. So did the delivery captain I bought my boat from...He also trashed the Allannd 31' for blue water voyaging but then again it was designed for the Bahamas.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:06   #70
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

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Don you are wrong. Circa early 80's they were ALL built using chopper guns. They are known, at least amongst boat builders to be the FIAT of boats (F)ix (I)t (A)gain (T) ony. You want to go offshore chose wisely. 80's Hunters WHATEVER model is not a good choice for offshore sailing.
.

Maybe! But since I don't know 80s Hunters I can not say. But you must have been a worker at Hunter as you know them all.

And there isn't anything wrong with a chopper gun because people refer to it in different terms, there are lots of 80s boats built this way (probably most) and they are still out there being sailed, which is the real measuring stick.

So what is the point

But my statement stands that general bashing based on a boat model, of a standard design of the 80s, is not a reason to trash a whole boat line. And in the end it doesn't matter anyway, all that matters is the boat you are looking at! So if the OP whats to know about the older Hunter 54 he should check out what other owners say not a bunch of internet "experts".

PS - I personally would not get an 80s Hunter 54, but that is because it isn't the type of boat layout and design I like. But it doesn't mean I judge all Hunters by it.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:26   #71
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

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Maybe! But since I don't know 80s Hunters I can not say. But you must have been a worker at Hunter as you know them all.

And there isn't anything wrong with a chopper gun because people refer to it in different terms, there are lots of 80s boats built this way (probably most) and they are still out there being sailed, which is the real measuring stick.

So what is the point

But my statement stands that general bashing based on a boat model, of a standard design of the 80s, is not a reason to trash a whole boat line. And in the end it doesn't matter anyway, all that matters is the boat you are looking at! So if the OP whats to know about the older Hunter 54 he should check out what other owners say not a bunch of internet "experts".

PS - I personally would not get an 80s Hunter 54, but that is because it isn't the type of boat layout and design I like. But it doesn't mean I judge all Hunters by it.
If I was the OP and read through the reviews of biased owners on HunterOwners.com I would stay away. Not only are all execpt for one being used for daysailing, ALL required extensive refit to make them seaworthy.

I stand by everything I say based on my experieces in the industry. I would bet my money that other manufactureres would stand behind my claims as well as seasoned sailors and delivery captiains.

Who is lined up behind you?

RT
PS And what I mean by lined up is a Hunter owner circa '80's that would go on extensive offshore voyages with a stock boat?
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:34   #72
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

oh whatever! I bow to the internet experts, must be nice to know everything about everyone.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:41   #73
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

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Don you are wrong. Circa early 80's they were ALL built using chopper guns. They are known, at least amongst boat builders to be the FIAT of boats (F)ix (I)t (A)gain (T) ony. You want to go offshore chose wisely. 80's Hunters WHATEVER model is not a good choice for offshore sailing.


PS Capta knows what he is talking about. Best advice is to listen to experience, .

You seem to be unaware all production boat builders used and some still use chopper guns.

Owners of these boats who have extensive experience with them including offshore sailing and have written reviews are available on sbo.com. Are you unaware of those as well?
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:45   #74
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

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oh whatever! I bow to the internet experts, must be nice to know everything about everyone.
Oh whatever? Don, I think you just blinked....

RT
PS OP I think we'd all like to hear what you've learned from all these posts?
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:07   #75
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Re: Hunter 54 - Thoughts?

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You seem to be unaware all production boat builders used and some still use chopper guns.

Owners of these boats who have extensive experience with them including offshore sailing and have written reviews are available on sbo.com. Are you unaware of those as well?
My credentials concerning this is yacht design, manufacturing, and I own a whole sale marine business. The design spec's of chopper gunned boats in the '80's era speak for themselves.

You want a boat to do offshore work that's shot from a gun be my guest. I suspect based on past experience manufactureres using that same process have revised their layup process and have improved the seaworthiness of their hulls but I wouldn't count on it.

No, I still stand by everything I said. Frankly speaking, your comments concerning this thread makes me think you are living in an illusion. Oops..
pun intended.

RT
PS Answer this question. Would you have taken a stock Hunter circa '80 on an extensive offshore voyage. That means NO altering of the boats hull and deck structure?
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