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Old 25-04-2012, 04:51   #46
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Re: Hunter 42 for Offshore Work?

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Didn't know this was a contest and there was some prize at stake. It's not a matter of winning, just expressing my opinions based on a few years of sailing and a few miles offshore.

Regarding the fall trips to the Caribbean, that is not a perfectly safe time of year to go offshore. It's the best time to go if you are trying to leave before winter storms but when the risk of hurricanes is lower, but neither is zero. Happens every couple of years or so, either a late season tropical storm or an early season Nor'easter, or sometimes both (ever read the Perfect Storm?) hit the boats heading to the Caribbean from the northeast. Southbound in the fall is what I would call a calculated risk, but in no way is it risk free. You are rolling the dice and sometimes you roll snake eyes.

This is a trip that I would make sure I was in a well prepared boat because it is a time and place where probabilities of survival mode storms could hit with short notice.
You can't say that you will never encounter heavy weather because of good planning and good weather forcasting and then turn around and say that well... on this route or that route it can happen. Either there are some routes you would never sail (Chesapeake to the Caribbean) or there is a contradiction here.

My point to both you and Randy is that heavy weather can be encountered when offshore and there are 1000s of instances where it cannot be avoided and one should be prepared to deal with it. If one is crossing the Atlantic for example, you can't just head to the nearest port and wait out bad weather.

Part of dealing offshore sailing is having a stout boat with a stout rig and proper safety equipment.
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Old 25-04-2012, 07:27   #47
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Re: Hunter 42 for Offshore Work?

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You can't say that you will never encounter heavy weather because of good planning and good weather forcasting and then turn around and say that well... on this route or that route it can happen. Either there are some routes you would never sail (Chesapeake to the Caribbean) or there is a contradiction here.
Well of course you can. It's not a contradiction it is just part of the most basic passage planning. Some areas are prone to storms and some are not or are more predictable. You make a choice and you plan accordingly. Maybe I can give you a very simple example or two.

1. North Atlantic from US to northern Europe in high latitudes, departing Nova Scotia to UK. Even in the summer time you have a fairly high risk of gale force winds and the passage is too long to have a clear weather window for the entire trip.

2. North Atlantic from US to Europe via Bermuda, Azores, to Gibraltar. Shorter legs and skirting the Atlantic high in early summer the chance of gales is extremely low.

So, you pick the route based on weather potential, your skills and your vessel. No you can never say never to anything but proper planning you can reduce odds of bad weather to a level so low that it is negligible.




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My point to both you and Randy is that heavy weather can be encountered when offshore
Well of course. No one ever said or implied otherwise.


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Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
there are 1000s of instances where it cannot be avoided
And by proper planning, instances where it can be avoided.
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Old 25-04-2012, 08:29   #48
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Re: Hunter 42 for Offshore Work?

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My point to both you and Randy is that heavy weather can be encountered when offshore and there are 1000s of instances where it cannot be avoided and one should be prepared to deal with it. If one is crossing the Atlantic for example, you can't just head to the nearest port and wait out bad weather.

Part of dealing offshore sailing is having a stout boat with a stout rig and proper safety equipment.
Going to put it in a little prospective on the weather and the "stout rig" issue..
And it has to do with where you draw the line of being "stout"

Here on the west coast of the US we have a mountain range on the east side of California, ( The Sierras) and within them a notorious place to be in the winter called "Ebbits Pass", Many have lost their lives in this area for various reasons, steep cliffs, 80 knot winds, and snow drifts the size of small mountains.
Its no place to play when the winter storms arrive and I wouldnt try crossing the pass in the winter with anything less than a 2 & 1/2 ton Military truck..
But on the same note, I've crossed Ebbits Pass a number of times, durring the summer months on My Bicycle..
So the pass can be as benign in the proper season as possible and a death wish in the winter...
Now I'm sure that it would be possible for a summer storm to hit the pass but the chances would be very low..
Now my question is, would you drive a 2 &1/2 ton Military truck for your daily driver just for the rare chance that you might go to Ebbits Pass durring the winter months.. I think not..
The open Ocean is the same earth as what Ebbits Pass sets upon and by picking the seasons, you can cross those oceans safely with the rare occasion of bad weather.. and even then, it wont be extreme..
and as a stout boat, the Hunter is like a Mid sized chevy car.. nothing really special in the construction but its built with enough safety and construction that it will get you where you want to go..
If, and I say If, you pay attention to the seasons, the weather patterns, and enviorment around you.. The hunter 42 is a Fast, agile, safe, and comfrotable boat built to cross oceans..
unless you're one to go play in the "nasties" , and chances are when you do that, nothing will help you...........
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Old 25-04-2012, 12:53   #49
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Re: Hunter 42 for Offshore Work?

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2. North Atlantic from US to Europe via Bermuda, Azores, to Gibraltar. Shorter legs and skirting the Atlantic high in early summer the chance of gales is extremely low.

So, you pick the route based on weather potential, your skills and your vessel. No you can never say never to anything but proper planning you can reduce odds of bad weather to a level so low that it is negligible.

And by proper planning, instances where it can be avoided.
One further example...the three young Swedes we met in Ireland mid July 2010...endured storm force and gales for three days off the Azores just prior to making Ireland. Dragged tires and line to slow down. They had quite a time of it. I suspect the odds of storm force and gales are much larger that negligible on this route.

Our odds according to the pilot for gales crossing from Halifax to Ireland in June 2010 was maybe encountering one. We encountered 4 on the way and a 970 mb low passed up the west side of Ireland shortly after our arrival. These gales had storm force regions. Like you mentioned we were able to move to regions with only gale force winds and avoided the worst.

What about the ARC fleet getting hit 6 or 7 years ago?

The bottom line...you need to be prepared when on the ocean and are far enough out that you can't run for cover. That includes a good boat, good rig, good gear, good comm gear, and good safety equipement. Without all of the above you are increasing the probability of a poor outcome.
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Old 25-04-2012, 15:40   #50
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Re: Hunter 42 for Offshore Work?

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One further example...the three young Swedes we met in Ireland mid July 2010...endured storm force and gales for three days off the Azores just prior to making Ireland. Dragged tires and line to slow down. They had quite a time of it. I suspect the odds of storm force and gales are much larger that negligible on this route.

Our odds according to the pilot for gales crossing from Halifax to Ireland in June 2010 was maybe encountering one. We encountered 4 on the way and a 970 mb low passed up the west side of Ireland shortly after our arrival. These gales had storm force regions. Like you mentioned we were able to move to regions with only gale force winds and avoided the worst.

What about the ARC fleet getting hit 6 or 7 years ago?

The bottom line...you need to be prepared when on the ocean and are far enough out that you can't run for cover. That includes a good boat, good rig, good gear, good comm gear, and good safety equipement. Without all of the above you are increasing the probability of a poor outcome.
Well, you just confirmed what I said in my last post. Three days north from the Azores towards Ireland would put you north of 45 latitude. Ireland is 50-55 N. Both well within the area that I would consider higher risk for summer gales.

And read my previous email. I also said, crossing from Canada to UK (or Ireland, same difference) you are in higher latitudes and at higher risk for storms in any season.

I have tried to say, over and over but you don't seem to be reading what I say, "there are passages and seasons where the risk of really bad, survival scale weather is almost nil." I do not in any way dispute that there are also many (1000s if you want to put it that way) of passages that the risk at any time of the year is high, passing by the southern capes for example, or as I said and you repeated, crossing the higher latitudes of the Atlantic even in summer.

Don't know why you continue bringing up preparation, no one has ever, ever disputed the need for proper gear and preparation on the boat.

Can't think of any better or clearer way to put this so see no reason to respond again.
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Old 25-04-2012, 15:54   #51
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Re: Hunter 42 for Offshore Work?

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The bottom line...you need to be prepared when on the ocean and are far enough out that you can't run for cover. That includes a good boat, good rig, good gear, good comm gear, and good safety equipement. Without all of the above you are increasing the probability of a poor outcome.
There was never any question as to what you needed to go offshore
as far as safety gear was concerned.
And not even the question as to which boat would be a better choice for crossing oceans.
The only quetion was if a Hunter 42 would be a good choice for doing so..
And those that have them, along with those that have open ocean experance, have stated, with proper planning,and the proper experance the boat in question a Hunter 42, would work just fine..

Again, its not my first choice, a FIRST 42 is, but there arn't enough FIRST 42s for everyone, so a Hunter 42 will have to do..

Catch Ya in The Fast Lane.......
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Old 25-04-2012, 16:06   #52
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Re: Hunter 42 for Offshore Work?

While the weather topic is interesting, I would bet that a Hunter 420 Passage (the thread topic) would survive any weather that any other 42' sailboat would? The biggest difference for the 420 would be the argument between a center cockpit and an aft cockpit, but not the "Hunter" brand. And if somehow you don't agree I would have to say you don't know anything about how that boat is constructed other than the same old internet expert BS crap story you use to make yourself "an expert"!

So if you are the internet expert who wants to say otherwise, please tell be what you know about how that boat is constructed and why it is somehow not worthy! Don't go off into into some other 3rd person internet crap story you may have heard!

PS - and I bet I have more real knowledge of the construction than you do so please do your homework well!
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Old 25-04-2012, 16:35   #53
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Re: Hunter 42 for Offshore Work?

I'd argue the point with you Don,
But last year a New H42 pulled in next to me at Avalon at Catalina island.. Got a real good look and she sure was pretty.. With the "Eye Brow" and all the lines led aft under the deck surface.. Not sure what year it was ... they were on their way to the south Pacific..
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Old 25-04-2012, 16:36   #54
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Re: Hunter 42 for Offshore Work?

Interesting article

HunterOwners.com - Hunter Q&A


Quote:
CWBB I think this is partially related to Hunter's marketing as passagemakers and world cruisers: Looking at a Hunter 43 or 45 interior layout, there is not a single berth that can be classified as a genuine sea-berth. Where is someone supposed to sleep on a thrash to weather in 35 or 40 knots of wind?

JB The interior layouts are designed primarily for families that do not do much extended offshore cruising other than, week ending, a hop to the Bahamas, out to Catalina, or down to the VI. Mostly the folks buying new boats today are not in the 3% or less category that will ever cross an ocean. Boat buyers 25-30 years ago were a somewhat different breed, they bought the boat from the outside in and the interior space and livability were of secondary concern. That is not true today, customers (want, desire) demand roomy comfortable interiors. Owners want a big comfortable center line or athwartship berth that they can lounge around in at anchor and at the dock get a good nap, sleep at night, or entertain friends and family. That's maybe not what you want and you're correct; there are few if any good sea berths in these configurations. And the fact is, that dealers know all this and aren't going to take an interior designed for that 3% or less crowd. They making a living selling boats (not paying the floor plan company). So when you go through a boat show or visit the dealer or go aboard Mr. and Mrs. X's boat in your marina the interior you're most likely to see is the one just described. We do have several interior options available in every model from the 38 to the 50 that have good sea berths for a crew to go offshore in. By dividing the aft cabins in each, including the 450 and 420 CC., this actually provides 3-4 secure berths. You will, with this arrangement, have 2 aft quarter berths, low down and near the center of gravity. There is a small pilot berth in main saloon with 6'4" length that can be lee-clothed and you can do likewise at the settee as it easily converts to a double.
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Old 25-04-2012, 17:47   #55
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Re: Hunter 42 for Offshore Work?

So, did you real all of the interview?

Give it up and go trash something else as you sail on "other people's boats"! You have limited experience on the boats based on only 1 boat (that you still chose to go on), yet somehow know more than those of us telling you otherwise and feel that makes you an expert to trash a whole line of boats

Why do you feel the need to do this??????? Because you clearly from this thread and others on CF and other sites feel the need to be the expert when it comes to bashing Hunters in general!

I wish you would stop so I could stop responding so people who are interested in the models could make a decision for themselves based on their own eyes and real reviews.
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Old 25-04-2012, 18:05   #56
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Re: Hunter 42 for Offshore Work?

One thing that I have learned in business and in life in general that might be applicable here. Some people will always be negative and argue that things can not be done, no matter how much you try to convince them. Other people just go ahead and do it. I learned a long time ago not to take much notice of negative people (although these threads can be very amusing). By the way I sail a C42
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Old 25-04-2012, 18:33   #57
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Re: Hunter 42 for Offshore Work?

In answer to the OP in my honest opinion the Hunter 42 would be a good choice. In fact it's high on my list for the next boat. If that boat makes the wife happy that's one huge point in the pro side. You would be a sailing couple and I don't know of any sailing couple who doesnt spend 95% of their time at anchor. The other 4 % of their time doing lighter sailing with the last 1% will be heavy and hard sailing. Many cruising couples get scared away from the boat that would truly make them happy after reading many people's bs some of which has been in the first 4 pages of this thread. You have to understand many people will just repeat things they have heard through the years about hunters which have nothing to do with a boat like the 42/45 passage models. I have a little time on the 42 but I have a lot of time on the 45 and it is a great passage maker. Find the boat that makes you and the wife happy pick the best weather windows you can and I think you will be very happy with your choice.
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Old 25-04-2012, 18:38   #58
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Re: Hunter 42 for Offshore Work?

Just a note,
This talk about sea berths and lee cloths..
We've traveled a fair amount of offshore miles with our FIRST 42 and in in all the miles traveled, even thou we have sea berths, we have never used them..
Even going to windward in rough conditions, the most comfortable area in our boat is on the sole next to the mast, and over the keel..
we pull the cushions off the settee and drop them on the floor..
we sleep like a baby there..
we have very good motion, at high speeds, going to weather..
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Old 26-04-2012, 07:02   #59
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Re: Hunter 42 for Offshore Work?

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So, did you real all of the interview?

Give it up and go trash something else as you sail on "other people's boats"! You have limited experience on the boats based on only 1 boat (that you still chose to go on), yet somehow know more than those of us telling you otherwise and feel that makes you an expert to trash a whole line of boats

Why do you feel the need to do this??????? Because you clearly from this thread and others on CF and other sites feel the need to be the expert when it comes to bashing Hunters in general!

I wish you would stop so I could stop responding so people who are interested in the models could make a decision for themselves based on their own eyes and real reviews.
I think the OP asked for both positive and negative points about the Hunter. The post you are referring to references Hunter sea berth options and I think that would be informative to the OP who wishes to sail the Pacific.

Hostile moderation is not facilitating information flow. I am quite frankly a little shocked by the belligerence by a couple folks on this thread. I started out simply try to contribute some things for the OP to consider and got hit with lots of hostility. I was told (1.) that I was bashing Hunters and (2.) its the captains fault if he gets hit with heavy weather.

I think that most people would not consider posting on this thread even if they had some good information to offer the OP.

Please consider letting the OP moderate the thread, he started it.
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Old 26-04-2012, 07:16   #60
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Re: Hunter 42 for Offshore Work?

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My suggestion is to stop listening to internet experts, many of which reside here. Lots of Hunters, Catalinas and Bennys have sailed around the world. There is a current blog on SBO.com of one H45 which just transited the Horn and is currently in S America after having experienced only two problems, a broken windlass and a torn sail fitting, both unrelated to the boat manufacturer. By the way, I'm not an internet expert but I did sail throughout the Pacific and saw every imaginable boat there is and they all had maintenance issues. Every one!

I LOVE my Hunter 31' -- but I wouldn't take it in the open ocean. I haven't been sailing five years and she is very tender. She's just not a deep water boat. 42' might be an entirely different story.

I have an older hunter, a 1983, with the metal toe rail. NO WHERE on her toe rail does she leak. Not a drop anywhere. That's a fine trait on a boat! Also, because of its construction I can add a cleat to the toe rail anywhere I want and know that it will be very secure.
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