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Old 12-11-2003, 12:27   #1
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Hunter 37 Cutter

O.K, all you potential Hunter bashers out there. Take your best shot. I believe with a few modifications, this boat would make a nice blue water capable boat. I know some frown upon Hunters, but I believe all production line boats have some good and bad models. I think his particular Hunter is one of their best designs. With a Phrf of 155, she isn't a racer, but she isn't a slug either.Her draft is 5' 1" which is good for island hopping,and her other numbers are pretty good as well. Tell me how I'm wrong about this boat, and I'll tell you why I think I'm right
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Old 12-11-2003, 20:40   #2
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Well, what year is it..?

My buddy has a 2001 Hunter 380, wich is really a 37'.

He bought the boat brand new and have problems with it all the time.....Deck-leaks, dealer tried to fix it under warranty, but it is still leaking every time it rains..

We drilled in the bottom to install a grounding plate and found the hull to be quite thin...No surprises there I guess.

Strange rig, no back-stay...?

Ya are not falling in love with the Hunter 37, are you Stede..?

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Old 12-11-2003, 21:30   #3
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Stede,

Try this site for more info.

http://members.sailnet.com/email_lists/index.cfm

OR this http://members.sailnet.com/messageboard/index.cfm

and goto search, type in the word hunter.

or this http://www.hunterowners.com/
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Old 13-11-2003, 06:31   #4
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The Hunter 380 is a very different boat than the Hunter 37 cutter that I believe is in question. The Hunter 37 was a late 1970's/early 80's boat that was reasobably robustly built, especially compared to later Hunters. They were nice boats that make reasonable distance cruisers. They are all getting to be over 20 years old and so there are a lot of potential long term maintenance issues with these boats. If the P.O. has not done the work then it will take a lot of cash to put one into shape.

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Old 13-11-2003, 07:40   #5
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The Hunter 37 Cutter model that I'm interested in was mfg.from 1978-1986.The boat has a displacement of 17,800lbs.,710 sq.ft.sail area,and a 7100lb.ballast.The hull is 1.5" F/G.Apparently the boat originally came equipped with a 27 hp engine,but most that I've seen advertised have 30 hp Yanmars.There are several things that caught my attention about this boat.First off, IMO ,the numbers on her are good for potentially taking the boat on extended blue water cruising.

PHRF of 155,
SA/D-18
B/D-40%
D/L-287
Motion Comfort-34
Hull Speed-7.3
capsize screen of 1.91.

If I understand this correctly, the numbers indicate that the boat has acceptable speed for a cruiser,is pretty stiff, and weighs in between what is considered a medium to heavy displacement boat.She carries 100 gal.water capacity,two separate cabins,a separate shower stall (good for live aboard) generous size galley,and lots of storage.These boats can be purchased in the $30-50K range.Some owners reported that the boat will point to within 20 deg.off the wind.All owner reviews I've read mention good stability,easy to sail single-handed,and exceptional comfort for a 37ft.boat.

Some potential problem areas.Just about all owner reviews I've read (thanks Del !) has mentioned replacing the cheap plastic portals.There were also many comments about excessive vibration with the 30hp Yanmar.One owner mentioned he was on his second engine and had changed to a Yanmar engine model 3GM30F and it solved the problem.Others mentioned changing out the 2 blade prop. I've seen a couple of comments concerning possible "oil canning" at the bow deck. One owner that uses his boat as a blue water cruiser mentioned that he installed 2"x2" vertical ribs in this are for additional support.Two sources I read made mention of beefing up the rudder post, but I only saw these two mentions out of many,many sources.Still it would have to be evaluated.

As Jeff mentioned, these boats are ~20yrs.old.,and more than likely will need some refitting to safely blue water cruise.Even so,I think if one of these boats were bought in the mid thirties price range,and was in overall good condition with a good compliment of inventory, the boat could be upgraded with probably another $20K.The end result would be a very comfortable,sea-worthy,blue water cruiser.Am I in "love" with this boat? I wouldn't go so far as to say that, but I am very impressed with her capabiltites.Then again, for what I'm looking for with the amount of money I have to spend ($55K),it's kind of hard to find the "ideal" boat.I'm looking for something over 35ft.,that is a comfortable live-aboard,has a some what shallow draft (5-6ft) for island hopping, but yet is capable of handling blue water.That's a lot to ask for in any design.This particular Hunter model is now very high on my list of potential boats.I still have quite a few others that I'm researching,and I would like to continue to get your valuable input
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Old 13-11-2003, 10:53   #6
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Hunter 37C

Stede:
You seem to have a handle on some of the negatives, which will keep your evaluation in perspective. Accordingly, don't take my following comments as discouragement - just a "heads up" on what you already (seem to) know.

... I've seen a couple of comments concerning possible "oil canning" at the bow deck. One owner that uses his boat as a blue water cruiser mentioned that he installed 2"x2" vertical ribs in this are for additional support.

OIL CANNING (anywhere) could be a general indication of bad design and/or cheap lay-up schedules. I'd be very conservative in my evaluation, as this could be a deal-breaker.

Two sources I read made mention of beefing up the rudder post, but I only saw these two mentions out of many, many sources.Still it would have to be evaluated....

Beefing up the rudder post ain't easy.

As you mentioned, I think choosing a Hunter 37C would be very price-dependant (I'd want a deal like your hypothesized $30K).

I had the opportunity (misfortune?) to view a dozen or so hurricane damaged boats, at the same time & place. It gave me a good visual reference from one boat to another.
I must say, the (newer) Benetau's & Hunters had exceptionally thin hulls (nowhere near 1.5" - <1/4"?). I was amazed at how thin, and generally dismayed by the poor build quality of both brands !!! I did not have time to examine these boats carefully, so I'm merely reporting my (recalled from 1993) impressions FWIW.

Regards,
Gord
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Old 13-11-2003, 11:14   #7
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Another H37 Departs South

FROM "ASK ALL SAILORS"

Casting off lines
Submitted by Richard Briggs on 11/13 at 09:21AM regarding General_interest.

Hello fellow sailors. I will be leaving home tomorrow and casting off the docklines Saturday to cruise to Rio Dulce, Guatemala. I will miss this forum and all the wonderful sharing that goes on by one another. The forum has been a great resource for me. If interested you may track the voyage of La Vida Feliz (Hunter 37C) at www.lavidafeliz.com The site is still under construction so please bear with us. Fair winds to all, Richard s/v La Vida Feliz

www.lavidafeliz.com
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Old 13-11-2003, 14:58   #8
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Hunter 37 Cutter

Gord,

Thanks for the good,sound advice.I don't know that this is the boat that I'll end of buying, but as I mentioned, it's now high on my list. I found it very interesting what you mentioned about the hull thickness you observed on some newer model Beneteaus and Hunters. While researching boats, I've developed some theories about boat construction.Actually, they're not so much theories as they are just general observations. I'll call them "observations from the peanut gallery." I'm probably wrong in some of my observations, so anyone please feel free to correct me. My perception of the main sailboat production sailboat companies is this:

Prior to 1992 most production line boats used 20 oz.woven roving in the construction of their FRP hulls.Roughly 65% of the FRP material was continuous glass fibers,and the remainder was 35% plastic resins.This made a very strong hull.I know some will disagree with this assessment, but IMO this explains the many,many older boats that are still sailing and have good structual integrity.

Most boats in the latter 70's and 80's were still being made this way.(The Hunter 37 Cutter) falls in this catagory.Unfortunately,production costs were also rising during this time,and many manufacturers started looking at ways to cut costs.With the Hunter 37C, I think they tried to do so by putting in cheap portals,and secondary parts of the boat, but remained convinced that they were building a stong hull and deck.One owner review I read mentioned that the hull is actually up to 3" thick in higher stress areas, but so far I haven't been able to confirm that.Because of the cheap secondary items that were being put into the boats, they developed a "cheap" reputation.In some of their later model boats,they went to a thinner hull to reduce costs,and things kind of went hay-wire.

In later years,some boat builders tried experimenting with cored hulls in an effort to reduce production costs,while others that were on the 'cutting edge of technology" were experimenting with cored hulls to develop a stronger,lighter weight hull which would also increase speed. The companies that had good processes for building cored hulls, charged premium dollar for the technology that they had developed. The others, well they just developed a mess, at a cheaper price.

Some where along the way production boat builders realized that they couldn't make boats cheaper in quality,and still market them to stay in business.They went back to their core principles for building boats along with absorbed increased labor and material costs, and that's why boats are so expensive today.

IMO, I would rather buy an older model boat than a new one today,even if I could afford the several hundred thousand dollar price tags that they have.I believe with my limited budget ($55K) I will find a sound boat that meets my needs that will be priced in the mid $30K range that requires some additional refitting, or a boat in very good shape in the $50K range. Either way, the boat will be as structually sound as a new boat today that sells for thousands of dollars more.

Now, shoot at will !

***Gord, thanks for the link to the Skipper getting ready to head offshore with his Hunter 37C.It's very interesting,and I hope to follow their travels closely.
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Old 13-11-2003, 16:08   #9
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I'd still say: Look at the CSY 33s......

They are strong, sturdy and roomy and with yer 55K you could fit one out nice..

Not in love with the boat myself, or trying to blow my horn, just passing on info that could become useful.......

Here in Ft. Lauderdale I work part time in the boat business, from local deliveries, to fixing things, to piloting, to helping friends..

See many boats inside and out and drive many boats up and the down the river, to and from yards and all that.
The more boats I see, the more I like mine, the CSY 33.

Not the perfect boat for anywhere, anytime, but on a limited budget for liveaboard and with high quality building and such, it is a bargain..

(Yet, they are also 20 + years old and suffer the same as any old boat: Worn out systems, rig, cosmetics, etc.....Good old boat ain't always cheap old boat, old boats that are NOT maintained properly should be even cheaper $ wise, than they are. Have owned 2 old boats and learned a lot and spent mucho dollars due to age.)

Good luck Stede and thread carefully out there....
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Old 13-11-2003, 17:11   #10
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CSY 33

Hi CSYMan,

I hear you loud and clear on the CSY 33. I'm not actually looking to buy my next boat right now.I'm just researching boats with the intention of upgrading in the near future.I'm not in any hurry.I've got a big notebook that is filling up fast with many notes on boats,costs,etc.When you mentioned your boat, I tried to do some research on her but there weren't any for sale on Yachtworld.I checked a couple of other resources, but "no Tamale".I saw some pictures here in the gallery of someone elses 33,and also saw the pic.that Del posted of yours.She is indeed a beautiful boat.Do you know of a link where one is on the net that I could look at? I've chartered several 37ft. boats,one 40 footer,and one 45 footer.You may also recall that I have a 26 footer.Out of those,I really like the feel of the 37's, but I'm not ruling anything out.Hey, I do appreciate the information you've provided. I was hoping that by taking a look at some of the boats on my list, that some ideas would be generated from it,and others would contribute information about other boats that should be considered.For sailors that already have boats, I was hoping that maybe by looking at some of the layouts of these boats,and items scrutinized here, that maybe it would generate some ideas that would be helpful on their boats as well.Thanks!
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Old 13-11-2003, 21:12   #11
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Hi Stede, my main man.

Screw the internet and the searcing around.
Just come on over here to Ft. Lauderdale and go for a sail on the CSY 33.

1 day or 5. No matter. Well take her off-shore and shake around a bit.
Boat needs it and the owner needs it.

I am off for good these days and need crew here and there...Looking for any excuse to take the ol ship out and about.
I have been too nice lately, helping friends with their boats, including sailing and crewing.
Would rather cruise on own boat.
Better food and everyting on own ship...

See ya around FLL on yer convenience...
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Old 13-11-2003, 21:28   #12
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With all due respect, this thread sure contains a lot of statements that would register a perfect 10 on the huey-o-meter or at least in need of some further discussion. I am not really sure where to start but sorry Stede you have some real duzies.

"Prior to 1992 most production line boats used 20 oz.woven roving in the construction of their FRP hulls. Roughly 65% of the FRP material was continuous glass fibers,and the remainder was 35% plastic resins." I have no idea where that came from but it is no where near accurate. Prior to the 1990's there was a lot of woven roving used but most production boats used over 50% mat or other non-oriented laminates by weight. There was almost no continuous glass fiber used in production sailboats until the mid to late in the 1990's when biaxial fabrics and better stress mapping became more economical to use. Less than 35% resin/65% fiber is an ideal that is not readily achieved. Prior to the use of vaccuum bagging or scrimp, resin ratios were often well over 35% and in the early days of fiberglass boat construction would approach the high 40% range as measured by weight.

So what does that all mean. Well.....Woven roving is a good way to build up thickness in a hull. The fibers are less crimped than in cloth and so more resistant to breaking when under load. It wets out easily. The problem is that when cured roving leaves a rough surface. It is hard to bind two layers of roving together without small air pockets so a layer of non directional fiberglass (mat or chopped glass) was inserted between the layers of roving to create a layer that could bridge the gaps in the roving. That is the bad news, older laminates contained large amounts of non-directional material and we now know that non-directional material is considerably weaker than linear or woven materials in sheer and peel. In otherwords these layers of mat provided thickness but greatly weakened the laminate.

While roving is a quick way to build up thickness and bending strength, the geometry of the fiber as they snake through the fabric means a lot more elongation as the fibers straighten and recoil. That elongation is what makes early boats prone to flexure and oil canning. Fiberglass hates flexure as it greatly accelerates fatigue.

The other issues with older laminates was the resin content and the quality of the resins. Older boats had much higher resin contents and much more brittle resins. Resin is the weak link in the fiberglass layup. It has pretty good compressive qualities but a fiberglass hulls ends up withstanding a lot of tension and resin has almost no ability to take tension. Beyond that these older resins had little ductility and so were especially fatique prone and also allowed moisture to reach the glass fibers.

"some boat builders tried experimenting with cored hulls in an effort to reduce production costs" Coring has always been more expensive than non-cored layup. It is the bargain boat builders build so called 'solid fiberglass' hulls. Better quality boat builders have used cored hulls from very early on because in the big picture, properly done coring produces a stronger, lighter, more durable hull.

"The hull is 1.5"F/G"
That may occur in places but it is highly unlikely that the hull is that thick. A very thick fiberglass hull for a 37 footer would be somewhere between 3/4" to 1" thick.

"I've seen a couple of comments concerning possible "oil canning" at the bow deck.One owner that uses his boat as a blue water cruiser mentioned that he installed 2"x2" vertical ribs in this are for additional support."

I would suspect that what you saw was that there was 'oil canning' in the topsides (between the waterline and sheer and not the deck.) Like most boats of this era the Hunter 37 lacks internal framing. Oil canning is not unusual and should not be viewed as a deal breaker. If the deck is oil canning then there is deterioration of the core and so adding frames does not address the real problem.

"the boat originally came equipped with a 27 hp engine,but most that I've seen advertised have 30 hp Yanmars." These boats originally came with Yanmar 3GM30's which is a 27 hp engine. (BTW I have one in my 38 footer and I like the engine.)

"Some owners reported that the boat will point to
within 20 deg.off the wind." Some owners lie or pinch and think that is pointing. At best that is the apparent wind angle in heavy conditions and flat water. These are not close winded boats by any objective scale. I would expect them to tack through 90 degrees and show something like 30 degrees apparent which is respectible.

Anyway, its bed time,

Nothing personal,
Jeff
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Old 13-11-2003, 22:00   #13
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One of these days Jeff will tell us what he really thinks ...



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p.s. for those that are interested ... http://www.marinecomposites.com/
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Old 14-11-2003, 05:56   #14
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Jeff,

Thanks for the input. No, I don't take any of it personal.As I've stated many times before, I'm just trying to learn as much as I can before I take the next plunge on a bigger boat.While researching boats,I run across so many different perspectives on these build issues,it does get confusing.I'm sure you're aware that there are many other knowlegable people out there that have some very different views from yours on some of this stuff.In an effort to educate myself, I try to get as much information from as many different sources as I can gather,then weigh it all out to develop an informed opinion.When I stated my "observations from the peanut gallery", they were mere speculations that I didn't believe to be totally accurate, thus the statement, I've probably got most of this wrong, so anyone please feel free to jump in and correct me.On this board,and others, I think a lot of times people hold back throwing their opinions or views out due to concern of possibly looking ridiculous, or uneducated on the matter at hand. I have no such inhibitions.If I come across as the fool, I have no problem with that as long as I gain knowledge in the process.That is my objective.Many of the statements I make are in an effort to generate constructive discussion around the subject.I'm sometimes foolish, but not foolish enough to believe that yourself,Gord,and others here don't have much more knowledge and experience with boats than I have.But I'm trying to catch up my friend !

As far as the Hunter 37 Cutter, yeah, a lot of the statements by owners are questionable, (by the way,the 27 hp was taken from the Hunter website?, but all the boats I saw advertised listed the engines in them as 30 hp).Regardless, as a whole, from all the many sources I've looked at,I still believe this boat could be an excellent blue water/live aboard boat that could be bought and fitted out for a very reasonable price.
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Old 14-11-2003, 06:47   #15
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CSY 33

CSYMan,

Check you out! A beautiful boat,and time on your hand to go sailing. I envy you! I wish I had the same. Unfortunately, I burned the remainder of my vacation time back in May when I took three weeks off to kick around Key West,and the Dry Tortugas aboard my 26 footer. I really appreciate your invite, but I won't have any more vacation time available until after the first of the year. If you are still game at that time, I could be available for crew cheap!- like for nothing Two summers ago I launched my 26 footer there in Ft.Lauderdale at the Harbor Town marina in Dania.Maybe you're familiar with it? The actor Gene Hackman keeps his large power yacht there.

Me an "G" go way back,an r tight....Da dog's one of my fav peeps from da D'town posse. Yo..., u kno what I'm sayeng????.... Well good, because I don't!

Actually, I never met the man, but while I was there,he was having his boat (which he had just bought) fitted out for a cruise up to Alaska. Pretty cool boat, with a lot of in-laid woodwork being put into her to dress her up. Anyway, keep me in mind for crew after the first of the year. I would be happy to share expenses.My boss acts like he understands my sailing addiction and is pretty cool about letting me off. I think he's really just glad to get rid of me for awhile, so timing usually isn't a problem.
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