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Old 01-04-2009, 15:21   #1
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Hunter 36 listing (as in heeling) and speed

So I noticed for the first time a week or so ago (observant fellow that I am) that my boat (actually, a time-share Sailtime boat - note: I have no financial interest in Sailtime, quite the opposite, actually...) is listing to port (I would say 2-3 degrees, but I could be off and the heel indicator isn't working...). I've been informed that this is not unusual (read: "this is normal") in Hunter 36s, with or without gensets (mine is with). Perhaps coincidentally, perhaps because the wind was 25-30kt and we were dead on the nose, I also noticed that the boat would sail noticeably slower on a port tack than starboard (say, 5kt vs 4kt SOG on a close reach). I checked EVERYTHING multiple times (the position of the main sheet, the traveler, the jib fairlead, and the wind), and am absolutely convinced that this was true.

Two questions: 1. could this difference in speed on different tacks be explained by the listing? It seems to my simple sailor's mind that its an awful lot of speed lost for a small difference in heel angle, and 2. do other Hunter 36 (or other sized Hunters) owners see their boat listing as well?

Thanks as always, pete
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Old 01-04-2009, 16:32   #2
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The speedo may read different speeds on port and starboard tacks because of where it's mounted. Is this GPS SOG? Did you consider currents on each tack?

If the boat is out of trim can you move some stores about? Mine lists a degree or so and I attribute it to the distribution of spares and supplies and the galley is on the low side and it weighs more than the nav station on the high side.
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Old 01-04-2009, 16:49   #3
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Which water tank are you using? Port or starbord?

Also placement of kedge anchor & chain storage high in a lazzarette?
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Old 01-04-2009, 17:14   #4
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The speedo may read different speeds on port and starboard tacks because of where it's mounted. Is this GPS SOG? Did you consider currents on each tack?
Defjef: I did mention in the post that this was SOG, assumed the GPS was implied. I did consider current, but as far as I can tell this is ruled out.
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Old 02-04-2009, 06:34   #5
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hi pete...i have a 410 and noticed while I was sat in the bar opposite to where she is berthed that she was on a slight heel, again to port. recently I had stored a large shipment of tools which i sent over from the uk. i didn't think the weight was enough to alter the heel especially as the galley and main seating area is to starboard. but sure enough spreading the load around soon sorted out the prob although even when piling most weight to starboard she never heeled that way. maybe they're just slightly biased to starboard my advise would be to check all none factory additions that you have to port batteries maybe,watermakers, water tanks, chain stuff in underbed lockers and see what happens.. There doesn't seem to be a lot of weight need to re-aline! great boats though.

regards pat
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Old 23-04-2009, 09:53   #6
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Pete.I have a HUnter 36 and as yet have not had this problem! as maddogpat said it could well be your watertank, fuel tank, have heard that sometimes this will make a difference.
regds
Kent
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Old 23-04-2009, 10:51   #7
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Originally Posted by pete33458 View Post

Two questions: 1. could this difference in speed on different tacks be explained by the listing? It seems to my simple sailor's mind that its an awful lot of speed lost for a small difference in heel angle
A 20% change in speed is a lot, but having raced boats of various designs, the short answer is yes, I've seen that much of a difference when trim is off by just a small amount. A 2-3 degree heel may not seem like much, but on a 36 foot boat displacing 14-15,000 pounds that's a lot more heeling force on one tack than on the other one. It's not just about the heeling force, it's also about shift in the center of effort and center of lateral resistance that is caused by heeling forces being different on one tack vs the other. My guess is that it's more noticeable at the higher wind speeds that you were sailing in than at lower wind speeds.
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Old 24-04-2009, 12:29   #8
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A 20% change in speed is a lot, but having raced boats of various designs, the short answer is yes, I've seen that much of a difference when trim is off by just a small amount. A 2-3 degree heel may not seem like much, but on a 36 foot boat displacing 14-15,000 pounds that's a lot more heeling force on one tack than on the other one. It's not just about the heeling force, it's also about shift in the center of effort and center of lateral resistance that is caused by heeling forces being different on one tack vs the other. My guess is that it's more noticeable at the higher wind speeds that you were sailing in than at lower wind speeds.
Thanks Retired Sailor, I very much appreciate the input. pete
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Old 24-04-2009, 13:32   #9
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Also keep in mind that different speeds on different tacks is rarely the result of just one problem. Yes, listing could do it, but in your list of things you've checked you didn't mention whether you checked the mast straightness in the port-starboard direction. That can really contribute to the problem you described. Best way to check it is with the main halyard, take it to the deck or stanchion on one side, then the other side to see if it's the same. If not, you may have to tighten the shrouds on one side or the other.

The other thing that can cause it is current. I know you think you ruled this out, but sometimes the surface current may be slack but it's still running a few feet below water level and creating force on the keel. This happens often in inland waters or close to shore, a sort of rip tide effect. If that's the cause then you won't see the problem at other times. Good luck figuring it out.
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Old 24-04-2009, 13:43   #10
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The other thing that can cause it is current. I know you think you ruled this out, but sometimes the surface current may be slack but it's still running a few feet below water level and creating force on the keel. This happens often in inland waters or close to shore, a sort of rip tide effect. If that's the cause then you won't see the problem at other times. Good luck figuring it out.
Well, the way I ruled it out was that both in Biscayne Bay (where the current changes with the tide) in and Hawks Channel (where it really doesn't), the speed difference stayed on the same tack for the entire day (on different days of course!) thanks again, pete
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