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zeta · 23-01-2012, 19:40

From a post in another thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHM

It's an awesome time to buy a boat. I just bought a 1988 Beneteau 430 in good shape for $55k. I have to put another $5k in it to update electronics, but got a great deal.

Randyonr3 · 23-01-2012, 20:58

Just my openion, but we chose a first from the mid 80s for the boat it is. And they don't make that boat anymore. We looked for 6 years and every 38 we saw had been rode hard and put away wet. Just by chance we found a 42 in pristine shape and didn't even haggl over price.
If you're planning on keeping the boat for any length of time, figure what the added cost would be over a period of years
The first series of the mid 80s is like a 55 Chevy. It's a clasic and makes for.a great hot rod.

Cheechako · 24-01-2012, 09:43

How does the surveyor justify the 56k if high book is mid 40's? Seems like the boat should be mid to high book less whatever a peel and replace job is. Of course, I've found surveyors seem to list the price near whatever the boat is listed at, so maybe that's just the way it is.... I sounds like you really want this boat, and I really dont want to rain on your parade.... but with evidence of palm sized blisters... you have a real problem there.... at any price.. As a production boat, there must be many similar boats out there without major blister problems.... I know it's a bummer, but you need to walk away from this one... or be prapared for a lot of work.... By the way... have you looked closely inside the bilges etc for blisters on the inside? Te hull on the boat I mentioned above was so wet it had them all over the inside... surveyor missed it... Is it a bolted on keel? Did surveyor check that out much? I agree with above.... if you absolutely have to buy this boat, pay about half.

JimWitt · 24-01-2012, 10:00

If you are saying that the blisters are the size of your hand and irregular in shape they are not gelcoat blisters at all. They are poor adhesion of previous bottom paints. this can be remedied by stripping all existing bottom paint. In Michigan that would be about $1500.00 with the best wet blasting system. You would then see any glass repairs that were done. Bottom paint cost is on top of that but can done by amatuers with excellent results. I would not bottom paint any boat without first putting an epoxy barrier coat on. It greatly improves adhesion as well as preventing true gelcoat blistering. I like Interlux 2000e. In materials it would add about $300.00 to material cost on aboat of that size

Cheechako · 24-01-2012, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimWitt

If you are saying that the blisters are the size of your hand and irregular in shape they are not gelcoat blisters at all. They are poor adhesion of previous bottom paints. this can be remedied by stripping all existing bottom paint. In Michigan that would be about $1500.00 with the best wet blasting system. You would then see any glass repairs that were done. I would not bottom paint any boat without first putting an epoxy barrier coat on. It greatly improves adhesion as well as preventing true gelcoat blistering.

I have personally owned a boat with blisters larger than a palm and up to 1/4" deep. It could be either...

JimWitt · 24-01-2012, 10:47

I should have said might not be gelcoat blisters. Maybe he can post pics.

MarkSF · 24-01-2012, 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

something of interest on that year.. Your FIRST was built in France as was ours in the mid 80s.. was told that they had a problem with some due to them being laid up in "polyester" and not epoxy.. And this is just hearsay, but I was to understand that with many, ours included, the boat bottoms had a recal on them and Beneteau called for the bottoms to be pealed and an epoxy bottom replaced.. ours was one of these boats..
did a bottom job on it 9 years ago with an epoxy barrer coat and bottom paint.. pulled it last year and the bottom was still perfect, not a blister one..
Its hard to find an early First like you are looking at and If it were me, knowing about the boats, I'd work it out with the seller and put a new bottom on it..
If its a FIRST 38, its a nice boat.. much like the 42 and 456
We've had ours for about 10 years now and still looking forward to many more years of travel....

As far as I know just about all sailboats of that vintage used polyester lay up. Some brands have blister issues, and some don't. Some that don't can develop them after over-zelous stripping of bottom paint, damaging the gelcoat.

zeta · 24-01-2012, 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skydiver1949

As the propective buyer I would like to throw this out to the forum

If the survey was 56K, and the hull was considered "normal for this age and brand" with these issues and they had lowered the price 10K to 46K, and the nadaguide is now about 44K top bluebook, what would be a fair price reduction to request? Low blue is 39K Thank you.

Most survey's quote a replacement value. I have never bought a boat anywhere near replacement value. My last one had a replacement value of $116k and I purchased for $29k. IMHO 39k for a 1985 37 ft Bene that may need $1000's of dollars of hull work is not the deal of the century, but hey it's your money, and sounds as though you have fallen in love. So pays your monies and take your chances. BTW bluebook is practically useless in this economy, good for comparing boats percentage wise but that's about it.

MacG · 24-01-2012, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkSF

As far as I know just about all sailboats of that vintage used polyester lay up. Some brands have blister issues, and some don't. Some that don't can develop them after over-zelous stripping of bottom paint, damaging the gelcoat.

Correct. Not a single production boat builder used at that time epoxy matrix.
Not even now. Only the specials and/or one off' s. Due to the characteristics epoxy needs to be vacuumbagged.
As far as I know we were the first in Holland to build a boat in full epoxy lay-up.
And that was in 1989.

Idylles15.5 · 24-01-2012, 21:10

Skydive I'm not aware of the other post members experiance with this matter, but this is what I do for a living. Paint / Glass/ marine carpentry.

I personally own a 86 15.5 Idylle which I have completely restored, and I mean completely. My boat was also built in France and this was when Beneteau still made a Quality yacht. Not the paper thin junk they make for boats these days that never leave the Sir Frances Drake Channel. I was trying to post some pictures for you, but I can't figure it out. lol I can build a boat but I'm not computer savvy.

Anyway I completely Gel planed my boat below the water line and a foot above because I didn't want that cracked egg shell look to come back under my new Awlgrip paint job at the base of my top sides or bottom. I think you have a major problem. Of the 102 feet,, 52 xs 2 I think I found two blisters the size of a dime after, and after I skimmed off the Gelcoat with barely taking any glass, they were almost completely removed. I think I sanded the speck out with 80 when I sanded the whole bottom smooth.

If you have an e mail or if someone can talk me through it, I have a complete catalogue of photos of the project, so you can see what this looks like. Also and this is a big also. A Gel plane machine can be a real damaging tool in the wrong hands. The offset has to be set perfect so you just remove the Gelcoat and not the glass. An inexperienced worker can also leave huge cut lines in each pass of the machine if he falls off the previous cuts edge.

I personally would bail. If you hire some jerk who says he knows how to do it he could destroy an already compromised hull. Like I said if someone can help me out I will post what proper gel [lane job should look like. Any questions feel free to ask.

svHyLyte · 25-01-2012, 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skydiver1949

I am buying this Beneteau 37 model and on the haul out, it was obvious that there was at least one quarter-sized blister per square foot on average and that some had been fixed a year ago and the others painted over or were new. There were few fixed and were of the larger size. Bottom job is one year old

The rest of the boat is in very good condition - not for just its age but for any boat. The interior is immaculate and shows care over the years

I realize that these blisters will have to be addressed but for the meantime, the survey says that this blister volume is normal for the model and year - beneteau 37.5 first, 1985.

Is this reasonably accurate? Thanks.

We have a 1986 Beneteau First 42 that is a sistership to RandyR's. We bought the boat in January 2002 based upon some other friends that also own a First 42 of the same year--in fact, only 15 hull numbers apart from ours so both were on the line at the same time. We have our boat hauled out at roughly 3 year intervals and will find one or two quarter sized blisters each time. These are ground out and repaired with reinforced epoxy and then epoxy coated and faired. It is no big deal.

Our pals with our sistership here hauled their boat and discovered a situation not unlike what you describe. They had their bottom soda blasted down to the gel-goat, the blisters treated in the same manner as above, and the entire bottom barrier coated. As I recall, that cost them about $7500 here in southwest Florida during the spring of 2006. The boat has been hauled twice since--most recently at Nanny Cay in the BVI for a Hurricane Season lay-up--and they have had no further recurrance. They have just resumed their travels, now headed toward Trinadad.

The First 38 is a very sturdy boat--google Liz and Andy Copeland and correspond with them for confirmation. The price you quote sounds pretty good for what you describe, even with a little work needed. (I would not put much faith in the NADA book considering that it seems to be quite inaccurate where mid-80's First's are concerned.) From the Seller's viewpoint, the issue isn't going away unless he/she fixes it so if you don't buy the boat, it will be rediscovered at the next buyer survey. Given that, I'd would see what you could work out with the Seller, even if that meant splitting the cost of the repair. If you can get the boat, you'll be glad you did.

FWIW...

**sneuman** · 25-01-2012, 04:45

Blisters are over-rated. It's time we all (buyers, sellers and long-time owners) got over 'em. A nuissance, yes, but except in extreme cases, not much more.

My $.02

**bstreep** · 25-01-2012, 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by sneuman

Blisters are over-rated. It's time we all (buyers, sellers and long-time owners) got over 'em. A nuissance, yes, but except in extreme cases, not much more.

My $.02

This is a perfect response.

Celestialsailor · 25-01-2012, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkSF

As far as I know just about all sailboats of that vintage used polyester lay up. Some brands have blister issues, and some don't. Some that don't can develop them after over-zelous stripping of bottom paint, damaging the gelcoat.

Not if you use an epoxy barrier coating such as Interlux 2000