Hull and rig stability and shape and tie rods

[Ray Kay]

My present boat is a Wauquiez Gladiateur 33. So she is old (1980) but a well regarded boat and the hull seems to be in good condition. She had osmosis treatment and 3 layers of extra glass about 10 years ago in previous ownership. We lost the mast 5 years ago and replaced it with a new two spreader rig from Sparcraft. I now worry about the tension in the tie bars between the hull sides and the deck fittings for the shrouds. Too slack and the boat and mast feel unstable. Tight and the boat seems to go out of shape. Floor sags in the middle. Any one help please?
Ray

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Ray Kay

My present boat is a Wauquiez Gladiateur 33. So she is old (1980) but a well regarded boat and the hull seems to be in good condition. She had osmosis treatment and 3 layers of extra glass about 10 years ago in previous ownership. We lost the mast 5 years ago and replaced it with a new two spreader rig from Sparcraft. I now worry about the tension in the tie bars between the hull sides and the deck fittings for the shrouds. Too slack and the boat and mast feel unstable. Tight and the boat seems to go out of shape. Floor sags in the middle. Any one help please?
Ray

is the mast keel stepped or deck stepped?

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Ray.


Appears to be deck stepped mast.



Francophones see ➥ http://wauquiez.gladiateur.free.fr/index.htm

[Ray Kay]

Hi yes thanks, deck stepped with a substantial king post below it attached to a substantial GRP base which in turn forms the keel stub as in the cutaway drawing. The deck seems to have raised a bit (about 10mm) in the centre and the floor gone the opposite way. The floor seems to have dropped the same amount in the middle. If I tighten the rods all seems well if I slacken them the whole rig gets slack. I wonder if perhaps the hull has lost some rigidity over the years?

[billknny]

Originally Posted by Ray Kay

Hi yes thanks, deck stepped with a substantial king post below it attached to a substantial GRP base which in turn forms the keel stub as in the cutaway drawing. The deck seems to have raised a bit (about 10mm) in the centre and the floor gone the opposite way. The floor seems to have dropped the same amount in the middle. If I tighten the rods all seems well if I slacken them the whole rig gets slack. I wonder if perhaps the hull has lost some rigidity over the years?

Sounds like there is a lot going on here...

The only thing that is pulling UP on the cabin top are the turning blocks for the halyards and other running rigging that leads back to the cockpit. Those loads can be quite high, and there should be something helping the deck resist that force. Usually a tie rod between the deck and the mast or post below the deck? If not... there should be.

Fiberglass is an inherently flexible material. Having the rig slack when you loosen the tie rods is not just normal, but totally expected. The were put there for a purpose, to transfer the very high loads of the rig to the parts of the hull most able to carry them. If they are slack, they are not doing their job, and you are asking parts of the hull that were never designed to carry rigging loads to do so.

It should go without saying, but do NOT sail the boat with slack rigging and tie rods. You risk serious damage to the hull or deck and rig.

If you really have questions about it, you should have a professional rigger look at it, and not have us guess about what is happening. I am betting the rig could use a good professional tuning anyway...

[JPA Cate]

There are a number of possibilities, but I'd suggest you have a chat to the chaps at Sparcraft about what you've found, perhaps involving their consulting engineer, and, based on what you learn from them, proceed.

What I'm thinking is that there may be something with the design of the new rig or how its installation was effected that is at the base of the changes you're now seeing. It has to be difficult to measure....the overhead pooching up 10 mm, and the cabin sole sagging an unknown amount. If you've been slacking and tensioning the rig a lot, is it possible you've not got the tensions correct? A problem with a whole lot of variables, and none of the possible solutions i came up would address both issues in one solution.

Good luck with sorting it all out.

Ann