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Old 25-09-2017, 05:39   #1
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Hudson Force 50 vs... everything

My boat search has evolved from looking at “Boat Porn” on Sailboatlistings, YachtWorld etc., to lusting after the Morgan OI 50 to the Whitby 42 (with bowsprit/staysail), to Formosa 51s and finally waffling between the Hudson Force 50 and the Wauquiez Amphitrite. I’m favoring a ketch for their sometimes shorter masts and so many sail plans available. My primary criterium has been salon/galley standing headroom followed by open access to the engine. I’ll probably be single-handing for a while... a long while. I’m 6’7”.

So...
I’m thinking that the Hudson and the Formosa come from the same mold plug. Both William Garden designs with the Force being a different interior layout. (Stairs vs ladder) Both full keel. The Amphitrite is fin (?). Whitby - full keel and the Morgan had many different configurations.

Which of the five would you choose for a comfortable cruiser and full time live aboard retirement home? I don’t mind slow. I’ve no desire to dash around the bouys on race day.

What would you inspect for on an initial visit prior to a professional survey?

Which of the five is most friendly to singlehand?

My purchase will be as soon as my house in the Port Canaveral area sells. In the meantime, search, evaluate and eliminate.

Thanks all.
Dave
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Old 25-09-2017, 08:33   #2
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Re: Hudson Force 50 vs... everything

Hey, my grandparents lived in Dinah Shores in Merritt Island. Visited once or twice a year growing up in the 60's and 70's.

Their house was at the end of canal without much of a channel, but we regularly went out on the creeks in a john boat.

It sounds like you're planning on living aboard? My retirement dream is to cruise the ICW and points abroad in a trimaran, ketch or single mast, for the reduced draft.

Best of luck finding your dream!!!
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Old 25-09-2017, 08:42   #3
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Re: Hudson Force 50 vs... everything

Thanks much. I’ve been wanting to do this for almost 30 years. If I don’t do it soon, I might not be able to.
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Old 25-09-2017, 08:51   #4
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Re: Hudson Force 50 vs... everything

Although they are getting a bit old now I really liked the Amphitrite and the Wauquiez boat quality in general. But there is a big difference between 50 ft and 43 ft. Singlehanding... 43 ought to be more than enough.... and in fact easier to handle. The keel is a long fin with a supported rudder; the preference of many. . One downside to the Amphitrite in particular (among the Wauquiez boats) is they often had teak decks. Teak decks are great in general, but often have durability issues over time. So watch for deck problems if you look at one.
Whitby's are popular too.
I think the few feet of less mast height on a ketch is overshadowed by the complication of using one. A sloop/cutter is easy to use, many ketch people dont even display the mizzen, so a sloop with one reef in (or you could have a short reef installed) could be faster and better anyway.
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Old 25-09-2017, 09:10   #5
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Re: Hudson Force 50 vs... everything

Thanks for your input! Sounds as if you’re an Alaskan refugee too.
re: Amphitrite et al. I’ve heard the term “Leaky Teaky” bantered about often.
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Old 25-09-2017, 09:15   #6
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Re: Hudson Force 50 vs... everything

Quote:
Originally Posted by N1EYO View Post
Thanks for your input! Sounds as if you’re an Alaskan refugee too.
re: Amphitrite et al. I’ve heard the term “Leaky Teaky” bantered about often.
Leaky Teaky is the term often used for Hudson or Formosa boats. Not heard that in ref to Wauiquiez at all.
I had a boat on Merritt Island for a couple years.
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Old 25-09-2017, 10:23   #7
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Re: Hudson Force 50 vs... everything

As a single hander, I'm partial to cutter or solent rigs. Yes ketch rigs have their advocates but it's more sails to manage, more lines, more cost, more weight aloft, etc. etc.

The whole "more sail combinations" argument does not really hold water for me anymore. It's just more to manage with very few circumstances where it's significantly more beneficial over a sloop or cutter.
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Old 25-09-2017, 10:26   #8
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Re: Hudson Force 50 vs... everything

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Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
As a single hander, I'm partial to cutter or solent rigs. Yes ketch rigs have their advocates but it's more sails to manage, more lines, more cost, more weight aloft, etc. etc.

The whole "more sail combinations" argument does not really hold water for me anymore. It's just more to manage with very few circumstances where it's significantly more beneficial over a sloop or cutter.
I agree. But must say I have never owned a Ketch. My cutters were great tho'. when the wind is 30, roll up the headsail and pull up the staysail. The boat is fast, flat and comfortable. I really enjoyed that strong wind actually with that setup. Real fun sailing.
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Old 25-09-2017, 12:25   #9
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Re: Hudson Force 50 vs... everything

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
As a single hander, I'm partial to cutter or solent rigs. Yes ketch rigs have their advocates but it's more sails to manage, more lines, more cost, more weight aloft, etc. etc.

The whole "more sail combinations" argument does not really hold water for me anymore. It's just more to manage with very few circumstances where it's significantly more beneficial over a sloop or cutter.
I'm not a huge ketch advocate, but I'd like to chime in here. A 30' ketch, like ours, was probably absurd in 1970 and it's certainly absurd now. A 40'+ ketch, especially on a heavier boat, still has merit.

First off, if you've got a shallow, full-keel hull form, you may as well match the rig to the hull shape. Some people still, like me, still like these hulls (as long as they're not too beamy) for simplicity, ruggedness and carrying ability. Also, for the budget/simplicity-minded, a split rig requires more rigging, but less need for furling gear, winches, lazy-jacks, in-mast furling or various other sail handling gear which can be pricey for those of us cruising on $1k/month or less.

Offshore, we frequently (70%+) reef and change jibs on downwind headings. This is absurdly easy to do on a 30' ketch. No gear required, my 5'2" girlfriend can manhandle every sail on board except maybe the Code Zero. We buy used hank on jibs for a few hundred bucks and most of them set quite nicely. Slab reefing on main and mizzen, no lazy jacks or gadgets to get tangled up in.

I've sailed on much bigger cruising boats, mostly cutters, where the post-middle age crew wouldn't stand a chance without a working furling gear (often power-assisted). If you can afford all that gear and maintain it to a decent standard, I see absolutely no reason to go for a split rig. Working in the boating industry, I see more than half of the marina yachts (most with in-mast or boom furling) have poorly maintained gear that is a pain to deal with at the dock, much less offshore. Meanwhile, the derelict boats with no-frills slab reefing are rarely an issue, because there few moving parts to break.

Split rigs survive because there is a demand for them. Our next boat will be a split rig in the 40'-55' range. The admiral won't even entertain the idea of a 40'+ sloop and the associated sail sizes.
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Old 25-09-2017, 13:19   #10
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Re: Hudson Force 50 vs... everything

FWIW, I think a 40 foot cutter would be fine for two older people. My opinion is that the sails are not too heavy to handle, especially if you have spectra sails. What you do want is big enough winches.

To the OP, it is really going to depend on what you like. The Wauquiez will be far more easily maneuverable than the heavy 50 footers. Everything will be easier. A 50 foot boat is really a very large boat for an inexperienced person to maneuver. You will be in an environment with it where everything is different. Boats sink, cars don't. You need to plan way ahead with boats.

There are a number of threads here on CF relative to boat handling. Read about how people solve docking problems, using prop walk to help you, using spring lines-- that will give you some ideas, read about how to tie up a boat properly. Setting the parking brake, well, that's a question of dock lines and spring lines, for starters.

While sailing is not difficult, learning to sail well depends on your drive to do so, and your abilities. For most land based people it is not intuitive.

I am not trying to rain on your parade, but am delivering a warning. Newbies with huge boats they don't know much about are pretty darned scary. The skippers haven't assimilated the Colregs, nor anchoring skills.



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Old 27-09-2017, 15:39   #11
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Re: Hudson Force 50 vs... everything

Agreed.
It’s been my ‘habit’ when going out with a new-to-me boat, I’ll take the prior owners and a separate captain with. I always pick up on the boat’s personality when there’s that many ears and eyes.
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