How to Start Sailing - Montreal, Quebec

[cres]

Hi to all,

I am thinking of buying a boat and start to sail. As I never owned a boat before, I can not estimate all costs that would be incurred while owning a boat.

I am thinking of buying a boat in 30' range - for example Alberg 29/30 or maybe even 37. Idea would be to move boat back to Croatia once I decide to move back there.

My questions are:

- Montreal doesn't have big bodies of water in direct vicinity. I suppose that nearest marina where I could keep boat of this size would be in Kingston. There is a lot of sailing events around Montreal but Alberg 30 looks to me like a big fish in a small pond here. How feasible is it to keep boat 280km (160 miles) from home? Would I be able to enjoy it at all?

- If boat doesn't need any repairs (unlikely), what would be approximate yearly expenses for boat maintenance? It needs to be hauled out during winter and put back into water in spring. I would have to pay marina slip too.

- How much summer sailing on lake Ontario would I need before venturing across the Atlantic? (with a reasonable chance of success). Is it realistic at all to expect to gain enough knowledge?

- How much would cost replacing (potential) gas engine with a diesel one?

If you have any other advice on starting to sail, feel free to share.

Thanks

[skipmac]

The distance could be a problem but it will really depend more on how dedicated you are to the boat. If the boat is big enough to stay on board then you can drive 3 hours there on Friday after work, spend the weekend, and 3 hours back home on Sunday night. Not too bad for commuting.

Yearly expenses will really depend on the boat. No idea what marinas charge in Montreal area but in the states figure at least $200-$300/month and a lot more around big cities and up scale areas.

Big expenses are new sails, new engine, things like that which you don't do often so really can't consider them as typical, yearly expenses.

Engine replacement could be done for a few thousand if you do it yourself and get a used engine. New engine and pay a yard it could be in the $10-$15,000 range.

[cres]

Thanks for the info.

How about boat choice? What kind of boat would be compatible with boat great lakes sailing and trans-Atlantic/Med sailing?

Would and old boat that spent entire life on great lakes be in better shape than one from salty waters?

Would maritime surveyor detect all significant problems on the boat if it is hauled out?

[Sailmonkey]

I've got to chime in......

If you don't know anything about sailing, the place to start is not with a large boat of your own. Start with a dinghy on the lakes near where you live or sail with others on the beercan races. If you like it......great. At that point you'll have a better feeling of size and sailing and be out a whole lot less money. Sailing with other people on their boats enables you to see a whole lot of different setups and methods and ask lots of these questions.

[Connemara]

Just a few thoughts. You're right that an Alberg is a big boat. You might better -- assuming you're fixed on a keelboat RIGHT NOW -- pick something smaller, in the 25- 29-foot range.

Then if you like it, you can trade up.

As well, a smaller boat is cheaper to buy and maintain (all things equal). The systems are usually simpler and storage costs are lower.

As for sailing areas, what's wrong with Lac Deux Montagnes? Granted it's no Lake Ontario, but it's close, which means you could probably get out on the water most days during the summer, improving your sailing and having fun.

My charts don't go that far, but I think it's reasonably deep in most places. I found a report online that says there are something like 20 wharves and marines in the 118 square km of lake, so lots of places to dock.

If you bought a big boat and kept it in Kingston, your actual sailing time would be limited.

My two cents.

Connemara

[Curmudgeon]

If I lived in Montreal I'd be sailing on Lake Champlain. Much closer than Kingston and much more scenic IMHO.

[RunningFish]

I see many Montreal boats in marinas on Lake Champlain, and I think it's a great place to start cruising.

[MarkJ]

Montreal!! What a sensational place to learn to sail!!!

I remember when we were coming down the lock and just seeing this vista spread before us of this huge lake with Montreal in the distance.

I am not sure if its shallow as I think the shipping lane was tight to the right.

Man there must be sailing clubs and boats there!!

And those women in Montreal!!! Ooops! I betta shut up right now!!

[Connemara]

Champlain, of course. Very beautiful. OTOH, still a drive from Montreal and I dunno about border issues these days. Maybe someone from the area could say if Homeland Security bothers boaters.

Connemara

[cres]

Lac Deux-Montagnes and Lake Champlain are both popular sailing areas. It is probably true that having a boat 3 hours drive from home would become obstacle in enjoying it.

It seems that Tanzer 22 is popular in the area. Is it a good first boat choice? Could small family of 3 spend a night on it?

What about other blue-water-capable-in-the-future small cruiser choices? Flicka 20? Alberg 22?

I am thinking of buying a little bit more serious boat in order to keep her for some time, instead of spending time and money on fixing and maintaining a boat that I am about to sell.

Thanks to everyone who answered so far

[Curmudgeon]

Lake Champlain is plenty big enough for a 35-40 foot boat, so you do not need to limit yourself to pocket cruisers. And when you are ready to venture further afield there are canals connecting Champlain to both the Hudson River and the St. Lawrence seaway.

[Connemara]

Tanzer 22 is fine for a family of three to camp out on overnight, assuming you mean mom, pop and smallish child (and assuming none of you is 6'2").


One thing to remember is that your first boat is almost never going to be your last boat. The whole process is a learning experience.

Our boat (Mirage 27) that suits us for now and for a few more years. We learned lessons on her and we know now more of what we want in the next boat (and more important what we don't want).

But she's just on the cusp between a small and very simple daysailer (with the possibility of overnight camping) and a bigger more complicated vessel with systems galore.

Easy to handle, easy to singlehand (for those day when the first mate is not around), easy to maintain. But big enough to learn some good lessons.

Connemara

[Drumroll30]

Cres, there are lots of boats and clubs in the western Montreal area, I have a 30 footer on Lac St.Louis. There are at least 10 marinas/yacht clubs on the lake, many with racing programs. As for the bigger boats on the lake our club has a Hylas 49, C&C 37XL and many 30 to 36 footers. I have also kept my boat in Kingston for 10 years and religiously commuted 2 1/2 hours every weekend (I had Friday's off in those days). Of course Montreal's sailing doesn't compare to Kingston's but it is sailable. Many boats commute through the St.Lawrence Seaway locks each summer for vacation time in the Eastern Lake Ontario/Thousand Islands area. Roughly 30 hours of motoring gets you to the sailing paradise of Eastern Lake Ontario from Lac St.Louis. If you chose Lac des Deux Montagnes and want to go west to Lake Ontario you must lower your mast to get through the pleasure craft locks/bridge at Ste.Anne de Bellevue before proceeding to the St.Lawrence Seaway system.

[cres]

Drumroll30, that is a lot of useful information. I live 10 minutes by car from marina Lachine (one at the west end of Canal Lachine), so it might be a good option. What is your club?

[Drumroll30]

Cres I'm at the Royal St.Lawrence in Dorval. If your new to sailing a club is probably a better bet than a marina for your learning curve. Most of the clubs have an adult sailing program that teach many basic to advanced skills. Our club has Friday Fun Races for those that want to learn and many from the adult sailing program get to jump aboard the boats of members for these races followed by a BBQ afterwards. When I joined in 2006 I did the Friday Fun race series and later moved up to the more skilled Wednesday night around the cans racing, lots of fun and a good gang that appreciate new boats in the fray. Pointe-Claire and Beaconsfield yacht clubs have similar programs.