How to estimate repair costs from survey??

[Island Time O25]

10 years ago the guy I had hired to do some work on my 1st boat had become one of my good friends. And so has another who was recommended by someone who at the time could not do the work himself. I think the key there was commonality of interests - we all love boats and are around boats all the time. I came to be bitten by the boat bug late in my life so I guess I had to compensate by being around a lot of boat people once I got into this boat groove.

But back to the subject at hand.

When I had to replace an alternator I followed the advise of one of those marine buddies and gotten a $70 new Chinese knockoff from the ebay. My buddy's thinking was that for this price and considering that I only do short coastal sails for now even if I have to replace it every 1 or 1 seasons I wold still be ahead of a $700 Motorolla or some such. The alternator is so far into its 4th season. So before I replaced mine, I was asking around the mooring neighbors and launch guys for a name of a decent mechanic and/or reasonably priced alternator. So I had a big chuckle when finally, after I installed my new alternator, my mooring neighbor in a smaller sized boat hailed me and radiantly announced how he just replaced his and it was "only" $800 with higher estimates being up to $1,200 and how he recommends this guy for installing mine. I had no heart to tell him how I solved this issue and I don't think he'd agree with my solution anyway being one of these guys who would not sail out for a day if his coaming was dirty with some bird poop.

Same with the surveyors. Some will pile up a list of costly repair solutions needed only for a circumnavigation, while others will give you cheap and quick repair estimate suitable for your daily near shore jaunts. Both will be right to some extent as it is your actual use of the boat which will determine which advice is more applicable to your particular situation.

[deluxe68]

Don't the surveyors usually give you a value for the boat? If this survey said the boat is worth $30k then you could assume the repairs would cost around $20K. Or, you could offer full price if the current owner fixes everything first.

[Terra Nova]

A survey will generally show replacement cost, which is often completely unrelated to market value, and therefore virtually meaningless to the buyer.

[Island Time O25]

My understanding is that the buyer's surveyor (not one hired by the broker or by insurance co) puts a price on the boat "as is", before any improvements/repairs are made. The next number (if applicable) is to bring the boat to minimum CG standards. And the next, again if applicable, is to make her capable of whatever the owner's expected use of her going to be (coastal, trans ocean, circumnav, arctic, etc.). And the last, and the least relevant, figure would be a replacement value, i.e. if the boat was made today and was sold new what would its price/market value be. And this has nothing to do with what it's value be if she was completely refitted to a Bristol condition.

[Terra Nova]

025--I've seen dozens of hull surveys. And not one of them contained that info.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

025--I've seen dozens of hull surveys. And not one of them contained that info.

I have not seen many, my own surveyor's 3 or 4, and others' - about a dozen, some contained what I described, some were pretty bare in anything other than just stating/listing all the systems with check lists and some rudimentary notes. I guess it varies greatly from surveyor to surveyor and from region to region, etc. This is one of the great pluses of CF that we can compare and contrast our own experience with that of others.

The very first survey I ordered for a boat I did not end up buying was 22+ pages long, very thorough with pretty much all the info I stated in my previous post. I've had he same surveyor do some more surveys for me and my friends and they were always extensive and well detailed. All for about $12/ft. I've seen other surveys, done for $20/ft and higher which were very skimpy and had way less info than my guy's. Some didn't have any pictures other than the ones provided by the ad or the seller/broker. My guy had taken probably 3-4 dozen of pics and used 2 dozen in his report.

[rbyham]

I don't know but it seems to me the survey list doesn't have anything really scary on it. I sure don't see any 20k bill... not even 10k. Unless of course you are prepping for circumnavigate.

Most of the list is basic fix it stuff that I would expect to address on any used boat. Cutlass bearing might be the most expensive thing on the list and that shouldn't top $600. The rest of it could be handled by anyone with basic skills and hours of elbow grease. Do we know what make/model boat this is? Still I agree that you should go for all the discount you can get. But there is nothing on this list that would be a deal breaker for me.

[tikirawker]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

A survey will generally show replacement cost, which is often completely unrelated to market value, and therefore virtually meaningless to the buyer.

Yes the replacement cost was astronomical. hahaha I am well aware that a brand new shiny 38' boat is not within our current budget.
The estimated current value is a little more realistic. Although to what seems to be commonly agreed - it is a buyers market so buying AT value is not our goal. The more money we save on purchase price the more money we can spend restoring her to primo condition.

[tikirawker]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

025--I've seen dozens of hull surveys. And not one of them contained that info.

Our survey had replacement cost and current estimated value.
Our agreed on purchase price is right at estimated value.

I did not post either as it is closer to opinion than fact.
ie- motor running hot is a verifiable fact using the temp guage - cost of fixing is opinion as none of us really know what the issue is.
I don't want to hurt the current owner if the deal falls through.

[Rick Williams]

We're going on our second solid year of work on a boat that the surveyor gave a "reasonable" grade to. What we wound up with was a hull (riddled with blisters that were not evident at survey apparently) and two masts. Everything else had to be replaced or in the case of the "new" engine, rebuilt. I had a spreadsheet with all the projects, anticipated labor and material on it. MY experience with this project, while it may sound flippant, is that you have to figure out what you think it might possibly cost, add 30% and then double it.
Nothing and I mean nothing happens quickly on a sailboat and if you have any integrity, you won't want to cut corners when you get your hands on the item in question so slower, more expensive and more extensive than you could possibly imagine will be the way the process grinds.
My observations of boats made for the Charter trade are that they are not made to last a lifetime; they look like they're made do last 10 years, tops. Lift up the settee cushions and look at the "joinery," the shop ply, the big joints.
Don't get emotionally involved, don't expect it to be your dream boat and do expect that your repair budget will be substantially more than you can afford. I've had to pay for mine as I go, over time and we're a long way from finished. The other caveat is that you have to love the process; covered in Awlgrip or head down in the bilge for a week or the project will die when your willpower flags and forget about hiring the work out; $50/hr adds up very fast.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by tikirawker

...we would get more intimate with the boat fixing and upgrading so when we made our first long voyage we could have the best education possible...

And forget about this kind of rationalization.

[Juho]

Originally Posted by tikirawker

The more money we save on purchase price the more money we can spend restoring her to primo condition.

Don't forget the other alternative of buying a slightly more expensive boat and having less need to spend time and money in restoring her. In this approach it is easier to estimate the amount of money you need to make her safe and comfortable enough to sail (=lower probability of costly surprises).

I would try to save by checking numerous boats and selecting the one that has the best balance in this scale from a repairable wreck to a well tested ready to sail boat. I believe the best deals can be made closer to the "ready to sail" end of the scale (since new parts will cost a lot anyway), but it may take some time to find the best deal.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Juho

Don't forget the other alternative of buying a slightly more expensive boat and having less need to spend time and money in restoring her. In this approach it is easier to estimate the amount of money you need to make her safe and comfortable enough to sail (=lower probability of costly surprises).

I would try to save by checking numerous boats and selecting the one that has the best balance in this scale from a repairable wreck to a well tested ready to sail boat. I believe the best deals can be made closer to the "ready to sail" end of the scale (since new parts will cost a lot anyway), but it may take some time to find the best deal.

Sound advice unless someone's hot button is restoration of a classic and they have deep pockets.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by tikirawker View Post
...we would get more intimate with the boat fixing and upgrading so when we made our first long voyage we could have the best education possible...

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

And forget about this kind of rationalization.

Intimacy is one thing, and i agree with your point.

One thing not mentioned in all the posts about working with yard guys is SAFETY.

The more you know about your boat, the safer it can be. (Not always with two left handed spanner slingers, but usually. )

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

025--I've seen dozens of hull surveys. And not one of them contained that info.

On an "insurance survey" the value of the boat is pretty much all they care about.