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Old 12-02-2016, 10:45   #31
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
You should take a few dozen high res pics of the boat in question, all compartments and rigging included, and post them here. Then watch as the denizens of CF tear them apart like a flock of angry buzzards! They will blow up your pics and hunt down each and every flaw, I'm guessing. Probably be better than any possible survey.
Pure genius! What a great idea...as long as all the negativity does not scare them away from their dream.

You may have hit on something here...but beware all the PO'd surveyors hunting you down!!
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Old 12-02-2016, 11:24   #32
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

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Originally Posted by tikirawker View Post
My friend and I are in the process of getting our first sail boat.
The surveyor had a mixed report but said the boat has a decent foundation.
We are on a budget so we knew going in there would be some repairs etc...

This was part of the plan as we would get more intimate with the boat fixing and upgrading so when we made our first long voyage we could have the best education possible (everybody has their first trip sometime....).

The report listed all kinds of items that i do not even know how to guestimate the cost or repairing. So how do we make the final negotiations or requests for concessions?
here is an example - during the trip from the dock to the marina the impeller had an issue so it was fixed before the survey. during the repair they discovered an unknown aux fuel tank and for some reason it leaked diesel fuel. so now the boat smells like diesel and the tank needs to be removed and/or replaced. Do we request $500 or $5000...
Unless you are sleeping with the friend and even then? It might be a good way to lose a friend. Short of going into business with them.
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Old 12-02-2016, 11:47   #33
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

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Unless you are sleeping with the friend and even then? It might be a good way to lose a friend. Short of going into business with them.
lol no we both enjoy girls... We have a regular boat already and that has gone well. You are correct it would suck to lose a friend. I don't think this is an endeavor I would try with a girlfriend. hahaha although i'm sure it would make for great TV...
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Old 12-02-2016, 11:57   #34
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

Looks like a nice boat. I would calculate what it would cost to replace the engine and make a low offer. It's a buyers market as you have heard. There will always be an issue which needs to be addressed and most are not critical. Even if you buy the boat for $40K and put another $30K in it, you will have a nice boat. Murray has a good reputation for reselling Beneteaus.


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Old 12-02-2016, 12:06   #35
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

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lol no we both enjoy girls... We have a regular boat already and that has gone well. You are correct it would suck to lose a friend. I don't think this is an endeavor I would try with a girlfriend. hahaha although i'm sure it would make for great TV...
A friend could be female .Just a caution on investing (throwing away) money. If it is peanuts for both shouldn't be a problem.
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Old 12-02-2016, 12:17   #36
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

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Looks like a nice boat. I would calculate what it would cost to replace the engine and make a low offer. It's a buyers market as you have heard. There will always be an issue which needs to be addressed and most are not critical. Even if you buy the boat for $40K and put another $30K in it, you will have a nice boat. Murray has a good reputation for reselling Beneteaus.

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The broker has been nothing but helpful. The reviews on the moorings is the boat is rugged. It really comes down to numbers that make sense. There are a never ending supply of boats in a downtrending market. Clearly buyers advantage. My coworker is hard core into fancy cars and he is excited because values are plummeting - looks like he is going to pick up a new toy...

I will be curious to see how this ends. I found this boat's sister listed in the Carolina's so if this falls through I could always make a move on that one.
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Old 12-02-2016, 12:41   #37
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

This neglected 26-year old boat is ready for a complete refit, the cost of which could easily exceed $100,000, if done by professionals.

What is it, exactly, that draws you to this particular boat?
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Old 12-02-2016, 14:26   #38
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

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It is a 1990 38' Beneteau Moorings

1990 Beneteau 38 Moorings Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

We enjoy the critics as they may point out something that could save us thousands.
Thank you for posting the link. Its a good looking boat...worth the trouble IMHO. I hope you get it.
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Old 13-02-2016, 01:30   #39
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

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I understand Gord's point.

When the gardener is here, I go and make Coffee/Breakfast/Lunch and supply cold drinks for them, but otherwise keep well out of their way.

They come and see me if they want guidance on a phase of the work (I usually ask them how they would like to do it, and normally their ideas are sensible and more than satisfactory, then well executed).

They work well, have a good work rate, and I don't slow them down (which = very good value for the per hour rate, and they do good quality work they take a pride in).

It's like with building a house. A customer that keeps making changes during construction, ends up with a massive bill, then cries about it being 'so much beyond the quoted price', but never mentions the long list of unquoted work they demand along the way, as they somehow expect that to be at the expense of the builder.

Actually, I think Gord's priced extra on rates are a bit low, given the negative impact such things can have on a job.

I guess we have a different viewpoint. I don't know a lot about boats and every time someone works on the boat I want to be there to learn. We had a windlass problem way back. Went into a marina to get it fixed - found a couple of nuts had come off the bolts and bent them. I helped the mechanic get the windlass apart, fixed and back in. He joked about how much I learned but also how much I saved by him not having to hire someone to help him. I then knew how to take my windlass part and did so when I changed out the gypsy when I upgraded my chain. Done that on more than one thing.
Let's say I did not help on the windlass and we got to Albania and had a windlass problem. What now? How do I get it fixed? or say in the San Blas Islands?
Helping teaches a lot about your boat and how to fix it if you need to.
I just made an agreement for a lot of pm work in a few weeks including bottom and the agreement is for X dollars(euros) and it will be discounted on the amount of work I do and I will do some of it. We need to replace a couple of our DS windows and reseat them and I have done that before so I will work on them to get them removed and then he can finish the job and reseat them -- Learned how to do that in Horta by help Jean Pierre there.

So helping is always a learning experience and if someone does not want me to help he does not get the work. pure and simple.
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Old 13-02-2016, 07:51   #40
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

This boat seems to have multiple problems that need minor or major repairs. My first thought is that there must be also other similar boats that are in much better shape, and that are still not too expensive. Unless you really want to spend lots of time building the boat, you are skilled enough to do that work professionally yourself, and you want to burn some large but still unknown amount of dollars in the project, it might be better to buy a boat whose all vital parts are in good condition. That may well be the less expensive approach. Also in that case you will have plenty of maintenance work to do (potentially expensive).

Like others have already said, buying a cheap boat with multiple problems may be a very expensive and frustrating route. Better to spend some time in finding a boat that is both in good shape and cheap. That's the route I would take, but you know better what suits you best.

My surveyor answered all my numerous questions when we surveyed the boat, and he told me which problems would be expensive ones and which not. Luckily there were no serious problems. He told us to call him also afterwards in case of any questions. I didn't get any written report, but I think his approach was perfect for us (gave us sufficient confidence that the boat was in good condition). Maybe also your surveyor will answer some additional questions over phone.
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Old 13-02-2016, 07:56   #41
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

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Liar!!!! wow that's funy... haha....
It's fun to ring the king's doorbell and run...
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Old 13-02-2016, 08:18   #42
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

From the looks of it, other than the issue of being ex-Mooring boat for x number of years, it is fairly priced assuming (and that's a big unknown due to the limited nature of the survey) the engine and all the structures are sound and no great surprises come up.

I'd probably shoot for a $30K to mid $30Ks as the final offer, $40K tops if I really liked it and needed her ASAP. And if the plans are for any meaningful cruising other than the usual short coastal trips, I would put another $20K to $30K into the rigging, new sails (if needed), new electronics incl. latest solars and such. Again the key word here - no major work needed. So for a grand total of $50K-$70K I'd have a capable platform for two couples or a family with kids to cruise the East Coast or the Caribbean.

For the world distance cruising I think that spade rudder looks a bit suspect anyway.
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Old 13-02-2016, 08:29   #43
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

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Originally Posted by chuckr View Post
I guess we have a different viewpoint. I don't know a lot about boats and every time someone works on the boat I want to be there to learn. We had a windlass problem way back. Went into a marina to get it fixed - found a couple of nuts had come off the bolts and bent them. I helped the mechanic get the windlass apart, fixed and back in. He joked about how much I learned but also how much I saved by him not having to hire someone to help him. I then knew how to take my windlass part and did so when I changed out the gypsy when I upgraded my chain. Done that on more than one thing.
Let's say I did not help on the windlass and we got to Albania and had a windlass problem. What now? How do I get it fixed? or say in the San Blas Islands?
Helping teaches a lot about your boat and how to fix it if you need to.
I just made an agreement for a lot of pm work in a few weeks including bottom and the agreement is for X dollars(euros) and it will be discounted on the amount of work I do and I will do some of it. We need to replace a couple of our DS windows and reseat them and I have done that before so I will work on them to get them removed and then he can finish the job and reseat them -- Learned how to do that in Horta by help Jean Pierre there.

So helping is always a learning experience and if someone does not want me to help he does not get the work. pure and simple.
Absolutely agree. Every time anything had to be fixed on my boats I made sure I was there. Not once did the people fixing stuff mind. Quite the opposite, just like your experience, they were appreciative of my willingness to help and desire to learn.

And now when I can fix many things on the boat, given a set of proper tools, materials and access to the internet, I can sleep better knowing that I can jury rig something to get me to port. My only (and IMO the most important) unconquered frontier is the engine work, which hopefully I will get to sometime soon as I have an old MD5A sitting in a backyard for that purpose. Once that accomplished I will start finalizing my cruising plans which IMO require a fairly high amount of DIY capability and experience.
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Old 13-02-2016, 10:38   #44
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

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Originally Posted by chuckr View Post
I guess we have a different viewpoint. I don't know a lot about boats and every time someone works on the boat I want to be there to learn. We had a windlass problem way back. Went into a marina to get it fixed - found a couple of nuts had come off the bolts and bent them. I helped the mechanic get the windlass apart, fixed and back in. He joked about how much I learned but also how much I saved by him not having to hire someone to help him. I then knew how to take my windlass part and did so when I changed out the gypsy when I upgraded my chain. Done that on more than one thing.
Let's say I did not help on the windlass and we got to Albania and had a windlass problem. What now? How do I get it fixed? or say in the San Blas Islands?
Helping teaches a lot about your boat and how to fix it if you need to.
I just made an agreement for a lot of pm work in a few weeks including bottom and the agreement is for X dollars(euros) and it will be discounted on the amount of work I do and I will do some of it. We need to replace a couple of our DS windows and reseat them and I have done that before so I will work on them to get them removed and then he can finish the job and reseat them -- Learned how to do that in Horta by help Jean Pierre there.

So helping is always a learning experience and if someone does not want me to help he does not get the work. pure and simple.
Great post...

I worked in the marine trades for 17 years during the summers, and either worked on my own boat or cruised during the winters. Mostly I worked as an independent, a couple of times I worked on contract in big shops, but I always welcomed help from the owner. Experienced or not. We simply had an agreement at the start of the project to clarify what our respective roles would be, and I never had a bad experience. Quite the contrary, I became friends with every owner that worked beside me. In my experience the owners that took that much interest in their project were not there to look over my shoulder, but to gain as much knowledge and experience as possible. Not to mention have fun doing such pleasant work. The people that came to me knew exactly what they wanted, had the opportunity to inspect my other projects, and understood that we were not working in a Democracy. We went over the project, discussed the possibility of hidden surprises, made a plan to either do the work in stages, or all in one go, and went from there. In that environment there is never any question as to why, how, or what must be done to achieve the end result.

I think that the shops/independents that do not allow owners on the project are missing a great opportunity to be a part of the connection between owners and their boats. To me that was one of the most satisfying aspects of a fascinating occupation...
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Old 13-02-2016, 10:56   #45
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

Some of my oldest clients and I have become great friends due to the respect they have formed by working with me on their boats. They saved money by helping, even if just vacuuming some sawdust or running extension cords. And they got a crash course in boat building they never would have received otherwise. More importantly they enjoyed the process because they became part of it, and understood what went into the work and what they were paying for.

On the creative side, they appreciated the collaborative effort.
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