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Old 12-02-2016, 07:46   #16
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

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Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
Best advice here !!!!

For example... This is one of our regular posters who does absolutely meticulous professional work that none of us can even come close to duplicating...

In this example we caught him laying down a bed of Plexus to affix his helm seat pedestal... Which he undoubtedly purchased from either Ikea... Or Beneteau...
Liar!!!! wow that's funy... haha....
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Old 12-02-2016, 07:52   #17
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
When I quoted a fixed price, I often also added a postscript:
Add: 10% if you watch, 20% if you watch & ask questions, & 50% if you help.
hahahaha as the saying goes... it's funny cause it's true.
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Old 12-02-2016, 08:09   #18
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

Sorry to say, I think your survey is on the "light" side; which makes it difficult to estimate repairs.

A more comprehensive survey would include a full inventory and condition report of systems. Some examples: running and standing rigging, steering, wiring condition, sails, ground tackle, running lights, plumbing/water tankage, head/holding tank, galley, all electronics, all required safety equipment.

Also check the engine hours and consider getting a compression test and oil analysis.

If you can find willing & competent repair people, have them look at the boat and estimate repairs.

If you plan on insuring the boat the insurer MAY require a survey as well, with their own list of "must do" items.

Good luck!
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Old 12-02-2016, 08:16   #19
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

I understand Gord's point.

When the gardener is here, I go and make Coffee/Breakfast/Lunch and supply cold drinks for them, but otherwise keep well out of their way.

They come and see me if they want guidance on a phase of the work (I usually ask them how they would like to do it, and normally their ideas are sensible and more than satisfactory, then well executed).

They work well, have a good work rate, and I don't slow them down (which = very good value for the per hour rate, and they do good quality work they take a pride in).

It's like with building a house. A customer that keeps making changes during construction, ends up with a massive bill, then cries about it being 'so much beyond the quoted price', but never mentions the long list of unquoted work they demand along the way, as they somehow expect that to be at the expense of the builder.

Actually, I think Gord's priced extra on rates are a bit low, given the negative impact such things can have on a job.
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Old 12-02-2016, 08:24   #20
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikirawker View Post
My friend and I are in the process of getting our first sail boat.
The surveyor had a mixed report but said the boat has a decent foundation.
We are on a budget so we knew going in there would be some repairs etc...

This was part of the plan as we would get more intimate with the boat fixing and upgrading so when we made our first long voyage we could have the best education possible (everybody has their first trip sometime....).

The report listed all kinds of items that i do not even know how to guestimate the cost or repairing. So how do we make the final negotiations or requests for concessions?
here is an example - during the trip from the dock to the marina the impeller had an issue so it was fixed before the survey. during the repair they discovered an unknown aux fuel tank and for some reason it leaked diesel fuel. so now the boat smells like diesel and the tank needs to be removed and/or replaced. Do we request $500 or $5000...
Most boats are really prototypes when it comes to estimating repair costs.

The key is to negotiate as much discounting to the sale price as you can get.

When it comes to repairs it helps to classify them in terms of safety critical (must be fixed), mission critical (replace, repair, retire) and nice to have.

You can play hardball with safety critical and some mission critical systems. The rest is purely up to the seller / buyer relationship.

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Old 12-02-2016, 08:30   #21
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

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Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff View Post
Most boats are really prototypes when it comes to estimating repair costs.

The key is to negotiate as much discounting to the sale price as you can get.

When it comes to repairs it helps to classify them in terms of safety critical (must be fixed), mission critical (replace, repair, retire) and nice to have.

You can play hardball with safety critical and some mission critical systems. The rest is purely up to the seller / buyer relationship.

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I like this three bucket approach to the negotiation!! Thank you for the advice - this will be used.
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Old 12-02-2016, 08:36   #22
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

If you are buying the boat at a bargain price, and are ready to take on a fairly long list of projects, then proceed. Also consider the possibility of needing to replace often abused items in Charters like the engine and windlass. My boat is similar to the one you are looking at but required less work. I still wound up putting $30-40K to get mine where its very acceptable. Not perfect by any means. That would take another large sum of money, but I can sail her to the Caribbean safely.


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Old 12-02-2016, 09:05   #23
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

We are now into the second year of overhauling our craft from engine rebuild, standing and running rigging etc etc on and on....
Some done by specialist craftsmen most done diy including engine.
It helps a lot being skilled, having the tools and the dollars. There's tremendous resources literally at our fingertips these days, CF being one of them, huge amount of knowledge here. Time and effort is a major factor that can offset $ plus provide knowledge from the experience which $ can't buy.
If you're in a hurry and don't have the skills or the $ to pay then you're already in an untenable situation. Cost of buying the boat needing what is clearly major work is already a loss compounded by additional paying to have the fundamental and major work done due to lack of skills and time.
My view is to find a better condition base to start from else someone else is likely to benefit from your efforts when you have to sell due to lack of mentioned resources in order to finish. There's a ton of boats out there being sold in similar situation also many sitting and rotting because owner can't let it go.
In our case the boat was a gift from some unique and rare people who didn't sail so we are way ahead to start.
Whatever you do all the best in your venture for sure!
Now, where's my 2 cents? I'm trying to get some beer money because all the rest is spent on our boat!
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Old 12-02-2016, 09:20   #24
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikirawker View Post
My friend and I are in the process of getting our first sail boat.
The surveyor had a mixed report but said the boat has a decent foundation.
We are on a budget so we knew going in there would be some repairs etc...

This was part of the plan as we would get more intimate with the boat fixing and upgrading so when we made our first long voyage we could have the best education possible (everybody has their first trip sometime....).

The report listed all kinds of items that i do not even know how to guestimate the cost or repairing. So how do we make the final negotiations or requests for concessions?
here is an example - during the trip from the dock to the marina the impeller had an issue so it was fixed before the survey. during the repair they discovered an unknown aux fuel tank and for some reason it leaked diesel fuel. so now the boat smells like diesel and the tank needs to be removed and/or replaced. Do we request $500 or $5000...
Few months ago a client of mine was in the same situation. He asked me to conduct a survey and for an estimate of the cost of bringing the boat to 'seaworthy' condition.
After the survey, I have divided the rcommendations and comments into classes: must, safety, nice to have, etc.
Then got quotation/s for each group.
Then added 10-15% for unexpected costs for issues that will be found during the work.
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Old 12-02-2016, 09:56   #25
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

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You should take a few dozen high res pics of the boat in question, all compartments and rigging included, and post them here. Then watch as the denizens of CF tear them apart like a flock of angry buzzards! They will blow up your pics and hunt down each and every flaw, I'm guessing. Probably be better than any possible survey.
At least tell us the make, model and year of your boat...so we can discuss known issues with that vessel, or hear from owners of the same boat.

Many of us here sail 40 year old boats, with tons of issues of our own. Doesn't keep us from going sailing and having fun. So don't be shy...what's behind the curtain?
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Old 12-02-2016, 10:09   #26
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

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Originally Posted by hamburking View Post
At least tell us the make, model and year of your boat...so we can discuss known issues with that vessel, or hear from owners of the same boat.

Many of us here sail 40 year old boats, with tons of issues of our own. Doesn't keep us from going sailing and having fun. So don't be shy...what's behind the curtain?
It is a 1990 38' Beneteau Moorings

1990 Beneteau 38 Moorings Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

We enjoy the critics as they may point out something that could save us thousands.
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Old 12-02-2016, 10:23   #27
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

Items/repairs are priced per item and then the fixing party to be provides a pro forma invoice. In my case it is a boatyard invoice.

I look at this invoice then add 50% on top and double the timeline. At this point I believe with some input of my own work and some pushing/pulling I should be within 50% of the actual cost and likewise in terms of timing. I supervise, they work.

Pricing a project IS easy. However, if you are very inexperienced and if the list is very long, your best bet is outsourcing the guesses to a very competent boatyard.

Or else buy a boat without issues.

Have fun.
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Old 12-02-2016, 10:23   #28
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

I'm glad someone brought up Project Atticus Sail Around the World. Adventure Travel Documentary Series

A good example of paying too much for an old boat. After 87 videos of repair projects, they are into their second year of repairs, and still stuck at the dock. Considering the dollars and labour they put into the boat, it should have been free...at the very most. Also, I dunno bout you, but I like to go sailing...committing to a year of working on your boat...it had better be a pretty special boat.

As for the survey you posted....sounds like at least $10,000 in repairs to me. However, it could be that much just for the engine work alone. As others have said, whatever the estimate, it will likely end up costing much more, and take much longer than expected.

My advise, FWIW, play hardball. Get a massive price reduction. Its a buyers market, there are tons of used sailboats available. You only get to pick one...so make it count.

In my own experience, I looked at a very nice boat nearby that had a "minor" engine issue. After my own survey of the boat, I (very politely) explained all the other issues I found, and my thoughts on the engine issue, and declined to make an offer. Apparently, every other buyer had the same reaction, and less than a month later, the owners offered me the boat for free. I was 4th on the list. I declined too...the cost of repairs exceeded the value of the boat. It was hard though, because it was a very pretty boat. Shortly after, I bought a different boat for $100 that I sailed home. It looked awful, but was sound in all respects. I spent the summer sailing with my kids, cleaning and doing many minor repairs anchored in beautiful places.
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Old 12-02-2016, 10:38   #29
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

Therre are Ok surveyors and great surveyors...
This limited info looks like an OK survey.
Expect to find more in the next year or two of ownership.
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Old 12-02-2016, 10:44   #30
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Re: How to estimate repair costs from survey??

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Therre are Ok surveyors and great surveyors...
This limited info looks like an OK survey.
Expect to find more in the next year or two of ownership.
That is a very valid point on surveyors. and for the things we will find...
lol I am familiar with boats just not sailboats. After 20yrs of boating the one thing I have learned is boats create news ways of requiring money. It is like their superpower. The only way to justify the expense is an unhealthy love of being on the water and adventure...
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