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Old 07-02-2014, 21:01   #61
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

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Originally Posted by sealubber View Post
As far as surveyors working for peanuts. Most surveyors are not working around the clock. It's not a high demand industry in any region of the world. Even the best ones don't make grand salaries.
Being a good surveyor is like being a good Captain they are a dime a dozen.

If someone is working as a surveyor without a license that's illegal and would most certainly would be found out fast.
Don't want to partake in your squabble but I would like to clear a couple of things up ..... NO license is required to be a Marine Surveyor. How to Become a Marine Surveyor.

In any real estate office or yacht brokerage or any other business, 20% of the workers will gain 80% of the business and make a good living. In the survey business I'd say those numbers are closer to 10% vs. 90%
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Old 07-02-2014, 21:19   #62
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

Thank you sealubber. I do admire that quality of life issue presented by you. I'm inclined to agree with you on the subject of getting the survey done before any purchase. It is a wise move. I seem to recall that Boat/us requires a 800 $ charge for their survey before membership? ..? I suggest that the owner provide a survey when selling or at least split the cost with a buyer if he has nothing to hide. I think we would agree that an old survey is probably not a reliable reference depending on the age of the boat and said survey, and of course many other variables as location, yrs on the hard etc.
I can certainly appreciate your position on this issue, particularly with the insight you have with regard to life experiences of crew safety. I must say that I have to agree with you wholeheartedly after all is said and done.
Cheers!
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Old 07-02-2014, 21:27   #63
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

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Thank you sealubber. I do admire that quality of life issue presented by you. I'm inclined to agree with you on the subject of getting the survey done before any purchase. It is a wise move. I seem to recall that Boat/us requires a 800 $ charge for their survey before membership? ..? I suggest that the owner provide a survey when selling or at least split the cost with a buyer if he has nothing to hide. I think we would agree that an old survey is probably not a reliable reference depending on the age of the boat and said survey, and of course many other variables as location, yrs on the hard etc.
I can certainly appreciate your position on this issue, particularly with the insight you have with regard to life experiences of crew safety. I must say that I have to agree with you wholeheartedly after all is said and done.
Cheers!
My BoatUS membership is $19.95/year and they don't charge anything for surveys as they do not perform them.
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Old 07-02-2014, 21:29   #64
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

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Don't want to partake in your squabble but I would like to clear a couple of things up ..... NO license is required to be a Marine Surveyor. How to Become a Marine Surveyor.

In any real estate office or yacht brokerage or any other business, 20% of the workers will gain 80% of the business and make a good living. In the survey business I'd say those numbers are closer to 10% vs. 90%
If you're signing you name to a insurance survey you absolutely have to be licensed or bonded depending on the state or working under someone carrying a one of the two. If you are found not to carry a surety bond you'll be screwed in court. Surveyors are sued all the time. If you are hire a surveyor and do not check their affiliations, training, (experience) or insurance you have no business owning a boat. Would you hire a Lawyer that is not a member of your state bar. Or a unlicensed Doctor?

In my own case I have a 1600gtl and every yacht I've Captained the insurance company and the owner has checked my numbers. If not running the boat I check my crew for at least a STCW95. When I was a commercial engineer I carried every related license and as I got them the company checked them each time I was promoted.

For everything else I 100% agree.
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Old 07-02-2014, 21:33   #65
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

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If you're signing you name to a insurance survey you absolutely have to be licensed or bonded depending on the state.
I've been a Marine Surveyor for 20yrs and can guarantee you no country , state or province in the english speaking world or any country in Europe requires marine surveyors to be licensed. I am a member of Society of Accredited Marine Surveyors with members in each of these countries, none of these people have or are required to have a license
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Old 07-02-2014, 21:44   #66
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

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My BoatUS membership is $19.95/year and they don't charge anything for surveys as they do not perform them.
Also West Marine sells car starters in their parts department and weak shackles. BoatUS does not provide all encompassing insurance required to stay in many marinas. If you're only worried about getting towed in or basic coverage no problem.

If you're getting a loan on a vessel and planning on cruising and going alongside regularly you'll be required to have a survey for the required insurance.

If you're buying a boat responsibly you get a reputable surveyor.
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Old 07-02-2014, 21:52   #67
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

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I've been a Marine Surveyor for 20yrs and can guarantee you no country , state or province in the english speaking world or any country in Europe requires marine surveyors to be licensed. I am a member of Society of Accredited Marine Surveyors with members in each of these countries, none of these people have or are required to have a license
I stand corrected I miss used the word licensed in regards to SAMS. And as a surveyor I'm sure you can say it's fair that all should check to see if they are a member of SAMS?
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Old 07-02-2014, 21:57   #68
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

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I stand corrected I miss used the word licensed in regards to SAMS. And as a surveyor I'm sure you can say it's fair that all should check to see if they are a member of SAMS?
At the very least and much more vetting than that should be done. Hiring even a SAMS surveyor is no guarantee of a good survey but I believe it does raise the odds in your favour.
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Old 07-02-2014, 22:05   #69
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

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At the very least and much more vetting than that should be done. Hiring even a SAMS surveyor is no guarantee of a good survey but I believe it does raise the odds in your favour.
As a professional surveyor it would probably to helpful to people to know how to properly vet a surveyor.
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Old 07-02-2014, 22:24   #70
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

Yes, I just had my boat surveyed by an insurance company approved surveyor. How should I go about getting his credentials?
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Old 08-02-2014, 04:55   #71
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

10 Questions To Ask To Find Your Marine Surveyor
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Old 08-02-2014, 06:34   #72
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

Okay, lets say you find that awesome $6500 boat and get it surveyed. The owner still isn't going to fix much on the boat for you.

When I bought my boat for $2,000 it was on the hard. I checked the entire boat for several weeks when ever I visited the area for soft spots.

I figured if the engine didn't run I'd just buy another. Everything else looked pretty good except the cosmetics which still don't look good. I have painted the bottom only.

Knowing the history of a boat helps. I knew my boat's last trip was a two year adventure from Massachusetts to Florida and almost back. And I knew the owner was an " Old Salt " that had died during the 5 years the boat was left there.

So far with new main, bottom job, a couple replacement engines I have about $8,000 in this boat and have sailed the crap out of it quite a few times in rough weather. It came with autopilot, two GPS's, depth, five anchors 2 of which were large with heavy chain and 250'-300' rode, compass, head with holding plus Y valve, 2 jibs, dodger, bimini, and so on.

Some of these pictures show how I initially found the boat while others are during mid repair then of the new main. The boat ended up being a very good starter boat. I say started because I wouldn't mind something a little larger like maybe a Cal 39.

Bristol27.com Hull #335 Winter Dream

Here's a pretty good way to test your shrouds except maybe leave the main all the way up:

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Old 08-02-2014, 06:57   #73
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

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At the very least and much more vetting than that should be done. Hiring even a SAMS surveyor is no guarantee of a good survey but I believe it does raise the odds in your favour.
AMEN! The quack surveyor who did my survey (Hartoft in Annapolis), a well-recommended SAMS surveyor who satisfied my insurance company, identified my main halyard as a shroud. Because of this, he stated that
(1) I had no main halyard
(2) An underwriting hit was to remove screw shackles from the rigging.

When I tried to get in touch with him to resolve the matter, he never returned my emails.

I know, we all make mistakes. But confusing a halyard with a shroud? He also missed the wet chain plate knee (but I already knew about it), and the propeller shaft fell half out of the boat on the way home (but they don't inspect hidden stuff, just the stuff that is easy to see).

Harry
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Old 08-02-2014, 07:27   #74
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pirate Re: How much trouble could I get into?

I survey the old boats I buy for myself.. but before I do... I do extensive research on the boats I'm going to look at... the sources are there if your bothered to search instead of just asking a bunch of folk who likely have no knowledge of that particular make.. for example H22's/Corribee's have their rudder shaft go through a iron tube that by the time I get to buy them are pretty well corroded through internally.. they have been known to sink when they give way.. most usually out at sea..
Others from the 'old days' had the decks pot riveted to the hulls.. have been cases of decks half ripped off in moderate to strong winds.. how many newbies would spot a 'Banana boat'..?
How many could spot an overstressed deck mast step.. or the keel step.. shot keel bolts.. the list goes on..
I've learnt quite a bit over the years.. sometimes expensively when I underestimated the job and overestimated my abilities..
But touch wood I've never had a mast fall down or a boat sink on me yet..
And.. if its that expensive I can't afford the loss.. I get a survey and Full cover insurance..
The only boats that make me nervous are Catamarans with concealed/built in beams..
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Old 08-02-2014, 11:59   #75
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

Hellosailor, it sounds like sealubber has a story of the worst that can happen (keel falls off).

I understand there's two camps on the self-survey piece, thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts. And thanks to those who have done just what I'm talking about and had a great time, thanks for sharing those stories! Reaffirms my belief that it's pretty do-able

I'll be sure to let everyone know how it turns out (assuming I'm not floating around the Atlantic in a mastless, engineless, keelless hulk)
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