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Old 31-01-2014, 06:45   #16
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

BTW, did you see this Grampian 30 for $4500 in Falmouth? Might be worth a looksee. . . .

30ft sailboat GOOD DEAL
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Old 31-01-2014, 07:03   #17
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

Thanks for the tips everyone! Jesse - I went to the boat show a few years ago and was thinking of going back. This might be the year! If so, I'll definitely look you up. The entrance fee is worth it for the free Cruising World subscription.

I've been thinking about going with an outboard, I've sailed a lot of P26s powered just by a 9.9 and they move at a good clip. I used to do my own motorcycle maintenance and I think a lot of that will transfer over to an outboard, at the same time I'd love to get some experience working with diesels. It'll probably come down to where I find the best overall deal. As you said, Jesse, hull integrity, decks, and a working engine, are all the most important things to be sure of.

Ed - The only two things I'm hoping to have to add to the boat are a chain rode and heavy anchor. Thanks for the reminder about the best way to get relatively cheap piece of mind! P30s I've sailed in the past have held firm with cheap braid, a small length of chain, and a 15-lb Danforth but there was always that nagging feeling ...

Cormorant - thanks for the tips! I'll definitely keep them in mind and try to ask the right questions

Reilly - thanks for the info on liability insurance. MA is definitely expensive for boats, at least where I've looked at keeping them. Quincy seems to have some better prices. But I'm hoping to just be on the move, with a lot of time in RI. I know the waters around Providence well, though mostly from about one foot above the water in an 8-man sweep and would love to get back there and to other parts of RI on a real boat! I'll be sure to keep the thread updated as I go

Thomm - thanks for sharing your story! It's great to hear what you did. It convinces me that it can be done! She looks a beaut
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Old 31-01-2014, 08:18   #18
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

You have a great and viable plan, and most of the advice above is good. One other thing: don't ignore the possibility that this could be a step into a lifetime of boating (especially now that you are earning that fancy graduate degree). Buy a sound boat that needs some TLC, then use it and give it some TLC, and you may find you can sell it for a good bit more than you have in it.

Then you can do it again.... and again....
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Old 31-01-2014, 12:37   #19
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
Go for it.

What's the worst that can happen? The engine turns out to be junk and the boat turns out to need a repower. If I were you, at the very least I would get the engine surveyed.
Decent advice , if self not comfortable with engines. But for this size / age / value of boat I would also like the comfort of having a design that would take a small (up to 9.9hp?) outboard motor on the transom without major modifications, just in case the inboard goes pop ......some boats were built with the option of an inboard or outboard, likely those would provide that option fairly painlessly.

Apart from that I would suggest the KISS approach, don't overload her with new presents (money wont come back on resale) or start making modifications (run what yer brung!)....and buy as best you can get at the right time and place for the budget.

Have fun .
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Old 31-01-2014, 12:49   #20
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

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Originally Posted by brownoarsman View Post
...at the same time I'd love to get some experience working with diesels.
We bought Smitty in 2010, prior to that I had zero experience with diesels. Since then I have had most of my engine apart to paint and put it back together. I do all of my own maintenance. This year my engine is sitting in the middle of the salon so I could replace the shaft, cutlass bearing, stuffing box, motor mounts, all the hose, etc. I fabricated a water pump to fit my boat because I wanted a better brand. I pulled the transmission off of the engine to replace the dampener plate. I have helped friends with a number of problems including taking off a high pressure fuel pump, cleaning and reinstalling. The list could go on. I have done everything short of a total rebuild.

I am not a gear hear. I'm a geologist. I know more about rocks then engines. So if I can learn to do these things from help on the internet, any one can. If you used to do your own motorcycle maintenance, you will be fine. And that experience will be great for the dink motor.

With a little ambition and some time googling you can do almost all of it with little help.

Good luck and fair winds,

Jesse
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Old 31-01-2014, 13:08   #21
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

It's a plan and losing a boat that costs less than $8k won't be the end of the world.

However, when buying a boat it makes sense to haul it out and have her on the hard the check through hulls, apply bottom pain, zincs etc. Once you're paying for the haul out a survey doesn't add that much to the bill... for that price of boat the survey isn't to protect your cash investment, but it might save your life or at least avoid a needless emergency.
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Old 31-01-2014, 14:46   #22
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

If you can work on a motorcycle engine you can maintain a diesel. I started on cars, went to motorcycles, then to boats, well, OK I've always had a motorcycle or boat in some form.
Diesels are pretty simple once you know the basics, just make sure the motor is decent to start with if you go to a diesel. they get expensive fast if you need parts or major work, unless you can do it yourself.
One of the diesels a rebuilt years ago was a Universal, the distributor wanted $86.00 a cylinder just for the piston ring set, fortunately I had a friend with a power equipment business who serviced Kubota tractors, Universal diesels were actually Kubota's marinized. I was able to match the ring set from the original tractor motor for $24.00 a cylinder. If it says marine in the description the price goes up.
Unfortunately if you don't have that capability you will pay, so make sure the engine works and doesn't overheat if you get an inboard, otherwise an inboard is preferable if your heading off the coast a bit, the waters off NE can get rough pretty quick and stern mounted outboards can have a hard time keeping the prop in the water under some conditions.
But hey, buy what you can afford and get out there.
Good sailing.
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Old 01-02-2014, 06:14   #23
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

The problem with the diesel engines on the boats in your price range is that those engines are probably going to be the originals possibly 70's vintage. If you get them to run, they will probably leak pretty badly...... oil and diesel which really stinks up the boat plus they may smell a bit when running with the inefficient fuel usage. This is pretty much why I went to the outboard.

Having never had a sailboat with an engine in the past, the smell seemed to somehow offend the purity of sailing.

My 10 horsepower Westerbeke Bukh Diesel (s) also weighed in at 352lbs whereas the 5 hp 4 stroke outboard was 58lbs. The cost for a new extra long shaft outboard with 5 year warranty was about $1500 and the new 4 strokes are just as efficient as a diesel with fuel consumption.

Parts will be another problem.

Be careful with some of the advice because many of these guys have relatively new boats with newer model diesel engines.
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Old 01-02-2014, 07:12   #24
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
I did just what you are planning except I didn't stop working. I found my boat a 1974 Bristol 27 out at a small marina in the country along the Chesapeake Bay.

(there is actually a nice Alberg 30 there for sale now with a newish diesel)

The old man that owned my boat left it there on his return trip from Florida back to Falmouth, MA. Lucky for me, he had replaced every old hose, shroud, etc as needed before he set off. The boat had been sitting there for 5 years when I found it still loaded up from his trip. He had died in the mean time.

I surveyed it as best I could and found no soft spots. I paid the $2,000 dollars the son (in California) wanted for the boat (it was probably worth around $6,000) then started cleaning it up.

I painted the bottom then screwed around with a couple diesels which was a waste of time and money. I should have gone directly to an outboard which I later did. A Mercury Extra Long Shaft 5HP 4 stroke on a bracket. Then replaced the main, added solar and an inverter etc.

Some of the pictures in this link are how it looked when I found it: (scroll down and there are also a couple videos of the boat sailing itself, one in 20 knots)

Bristol27.com Hull #335 Winter Dream
Very classy the way you included the former owner's obituary on the site.
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Old 01-02-2014, 07:24   #25
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

I cannot remember whether or not I meant to have it on that site or whether I was just giving Andrew (site owner/administrator) the history of the boat.

Either way the guy lived a good life and definitely has saved my butt several times with "his" preparation of the boat. (which means anchors and seacock/thruhull maintenance, as well as overall structural maintenance on the boat)

Either way, you gotta love the last line in the obit:

A celebration of the life of Russ Ottey will be held on August 29, 2010 at 4 p.m. at Barlow's Boatyard in Pocasset, MA.
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Old 01-02-2014, 08:51   #26
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

You have a sensible plan and a lot of good advice from the forum. A couple additional words of advice:

I would look for a boat in the water (not on the hard) and survey it myself. For one summer of cruising, I wouldn't worry too much about wet decks or blisters, although they could affect resale value. On the other hand, I would check for things that affect creature comforts, like annoying leaks. Pick a rainy day to look at the boat and check for leaks and drips at the deck fittings and chainplates. Check for leaks at the prop shaft and rudder stuffing boxes. Definitely check the thruhulls: if ball valves, check that they open and close. Avoid gate valves or plan to replace them.

Visit the boat on a fair day and take her out for a sea trial. Check out the sails and the engine. One trick with a diesel is to make sure it is cold before you try to start it (ask the owner not to start it before you come on board and make sure it really is cold by touching it with your hand.) Check for fuel and oil leaks. Swipe a paper towel over all the fittings and under the engine.

While not absolutely necessary, you might want to update the electronics. For a NE cruise I would want a working depthsounder visible from the cockpit, a chartplotter (handheld is OK, but a larger screen would be better), and possibly an inexpensive radar. You can get all three for about $2000. We have cruised in Maine and Mass for years with only a compass, a "flasher" depthounder, and a VHF radio, so updated electronics aren't an absolute necessity but make things easier.

If you're planning to do most of your sailing solo, I'd consider an autopilot to be an absolute necessity.
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Old 01-02-2014, 09:04   #27
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

ok so buy it.
rebuild engine or replace it
check all thru hulls.
check all sails.
get the flock out of dodge. the rest is fixable under way
yes there are parts and sailmakers and such out here.......omg there is food also....rodl.... have fun.
oh yeah,..make sure your potential hull has solid stringers and nothing looking like an eggshell, cracked from falling..like humpty dumpty shell......might wanna buy spare chain plates and tangs and cables for redoing rig at some point....
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Old 01-02-2014, 15:16   #28
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

Looks like they are at it again. (see above, replace this, redo that, sew this)

One of the first things you have to figure out with boating/sailing is do you want to sail or do you want to fix up stuff?

I found a wonderful site when I bought my Bristol 27.......called Bristol 27.com.

I bought my boat in June 2011 and I was sailing it by late July even though it had been on the hard for 5 years. The fellow at the site bought his boat near the same time and is still working on it.

One of the best pieces of advice I ever received was from James Baldwin's Atom Voyages website and it was this:

A final word of advice to the novice sailor - resist the temptation to undertake a major refit and extensive modifications on your new old boat right at the start. It's best to make only the obvious repairs needed and go out and sail locally and on some coastal vacation passages to learn exactly what is and what is not needed for you. Otherwise you may end up spending years and many thousands of dollars more than expected modifying your boat and then find out on your first ocean crossing that the boat is not right for you or those great ideas you had during the refurbishment did not work out that well at sea.

http://atomvoyages.com/planning/good...oats-list.html
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Old 01-02-2014, 17:17   #29
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

Seen this one?

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-a-119903.html
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Old 01-02-2014, 18:09   #30
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Re: How much trouble could I get into?

A final word of advice to the novice sailor - resist the temptation to undertake a major refit and extensive modifications on your new old boat right at the start. It's best to make only the obvious repairs needed and go out and sail locally and on some coastal vacation passages to learn exactly what is and what is not needed for you. Otherwise you may end up spending years and many thousands of dollars more than expected modifying your boat and then find out on your first ocean crossing that the boat is not right for you or those great ideas you had during the refurbishment did not work out that well at sea.

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