Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-05-2014, 15:14   #46
Senior Cruiser
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 30,585
Images: 2
pirate Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
When Boatie61 skippered Rubessa from the UK, I heard the engine on a lot of the time.
It IS sailing, or part of it. Beats rowing anytime..


UK to San Vincente was pure sailing... even touched 18kts on a surf...
from there round to Duquesa was 80% motor sailing.. light winds..
__________________

It was a dark and stormy night and the captain of the ship said.. "Hey Jim, spin us a yarn." and the yarn began like this.. "It was a dark and stormy night.."
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 17:32   #47
cruiser

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa to New York
Boat: Morgan 33 OutIsland, Magic and 33' offshore scott design "Cutting Edge"
Posts: 1,594
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

I guess with me its all about money. When Im travelling Im not working. When Im working im just running around inshore. Rarely sailing but fuel is factored into the work. The more I motor the more I have to work. last couple of trips travelling it was without a motor at all. Charleston to tampa solo engineless. Trip back from Keys to tampa no motor. I ran it to go under the 7 mi bridge then it died pulling anchor off cape sable. Hoping that problem is over now with new rust free fuel lines and replaced injector pump. My best memories of sailing were a 40 day trip from tampa around bahamas and back in a 23' sloop with no motor.
forsailbyowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 19:50   #48
Registered User
 
Kokanee's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Adelaide Australia
Boat: Cuddles 30ft Motor Sailer
Posts: 286
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Owning a motorsailer, I'm obviously not a sailing purist.

My time on the water is divided fairly evenly 3 ways, 1/3 under sail only, 1/3 motoring, and 1/3 motor sailing.

The boat doesn't have the ultimate in sailing efficiency, but I'm ok with that. Instead it has a comfortable pilot house on the same level as the cockpit with great 360 degree vision. I don't really mind what the wind (or rain) is doing; I just adjust accordingly. Its all good.
Kokanee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 21:03   #49
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,782
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokanee View Post
... [my motorsailer] has a comfortable pilot house on the same level as the cockpit with great 360 degree vision. I don't really mind what the wind (or rain) is doing; I just adjust accordingly. Its all good.
I agree. Having a pilot house with a 360-degree is ideal especially having more than enough UV, water spray, wind, and so on, in an open cockpit.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 00:45   #50
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: At sea somewhere in the Pacific
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 6,351
Images: 1
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Let's face it. Lot's of cruisers dislike beating upwind and will use the iron genny when they are faced with an uphill sail. At the same time, they hate very light winds (say under 8-10 knots) because they have to spend a lot of time trimming sails.

Conversely, many do not like winds over 10 knots, because now they have to pay attention to the boat, sail trim and steering.

So many, only use their sails when they have a beam reach or are sailing downhill in 8-18 knot winds.

I like those conditions also - unfortunately, we don't get them all that often up here in the Baltic............................

carsten
__________________


https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=carsten...ref=nb_sb_noss

Our books have gotten 5 star reviews on Amazon. Several readers have written "I never thought I would go on a circumnavigation, but when I read these books, I was right there in the cockpit with Vinni and Carsten"
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 01:00   #51
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,983
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

I think its an age money thing...older sailors with deep pockets motor a lot more cause its easy peasy. Younger sailors with low budgets sail more because they don't want to buy the diesel plus they have higher energy and think nothing of setting the chute.
robert sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 01:28   #52
Moderator Emeritus
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
I think its an age money thing...older sailors with deep pockets motor a lot more cause its easy peasy. Younger sailors with low budgets sail more because they don't want to buy the diesel plus they have higher energy and think nothing of setting the chute.
Your theory falls apart when you have an older sailor with smaller pockets doesnt it........

I guess the poorer oldies will just have to drink Sanatogen and Bovril and creak to the foredeck and set the NOT cheap 'chute or Parasailor regardlesss

(for non Brits... the two drinks mentioned are energy drinks...Sanatogen "specially fortified for the over 45's"..)
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 01:59   #53
Moderator Emeritus
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
We already know most people rarely sail. I have seen 20 cruisers in the last 3 months, and only 2 were using their sails. I'm 99.9% sail and .1% sculling oar.

What I want to know is how much time when you are on CF are you also sailing? Currently I am close reaching at 4 knots in 7 knots of wind.
Lovely.!

Currently I am in the heads of yet another vessel being looked at by #3 nephew and am using a 7 inch tablet somewhere in Cardiff Wales. I too am close reaching with plenty of wind.
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 02:00   #54
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,983
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Yes my theory fails when your an old poor sailor but there are not that many.....really poor oldies but there sure are lots with deep pockets. These new big cats loaded to the gills for a million or two come to mind and they do motor a lot.
robert sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 02:10   #55
Moderator Emeritus
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Yes my theory fails when your an old poor sailor but there are not that many.....really poor oldies but there sure are lots with deep pockets. These new big cats loaded to the gills for a million or two come to mind and they do motor a lot.

For the average Cat sailor aged above 50, if the vessel is 40 plus foot then its not going to be a cheap vessel. They have worked to get it and there will be money in the kitty to run it.

If a young 'un has one similar, then he has the same money to run it.

If the older guy has a modest smaller Cat, he might well still turn on the engine as it burns less than half a gallon an hour.

Unless a person is REALLY short on cash..... or has a stupid expensive gas guzzler... the engine goes on when it needs to.
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 02:20   #56
Moderator Emeritus
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Traveling back now to Newport (Wales) after an early morning run to view two vessels. I thought #3 nephew had made his mind up on one particular boat but it seems he was unhappy about an area of sponginess on the deck.

In looking at the Marinas and boatyards, I see a lot of boats that have lain there for a long time, just needing some love and attention and putting back in the water. We dont know the stories behind th reason for the lack of use, some might be sad and some might be loss of interest in sailing..... Many people just walk away from things and dont look back.

What sailing is about in the South of England.

__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 03:04   #57
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

The interesting question to me is how to design a boat which can sail in midocean in light winds, even with a left-over swell. I've been on a couple of racing yachts where this is possible, but never a cruising vessel.

Such a swell is usual, at least in my favoured oceans. Even the Southern Ocean has calms, often one per weather system, but there's almost always a swell travelling ahead of the next one.

For me, motoring on long ocean passages is not just impractical, it feels to me like skipping the slower-paced bits of a well-written book.

Those bits are often the best bits, and if I skip them, not only have I not read the book, but I won't even know what I've missed.

Here's my set of (hopefully!) enabling features:

1) Narrow waterline beam, wide beam on deck (plenty of topside flare)

2) Shortish, bulletproof mast, but a modernised sliding gunter, radial fathead, "light airs" mainsail with massive sail area up high, and a vertical leech up to the fathead (sliding gunter projecting well above the standing rig).

Lightweight (nylon?) mainsail cloth, replaceable (semi-disposable) rectangular panels between lightweight full length battens, attached with velcro, to 'blow out' if caught with too much sail up, to save busting the sliding gunter topmast. Leech and luff loads taken separately from sailcloth (by leech and luff lines)

3) Water ballast, acting at the wide gunwhale (carried in hypalon 'pontoons' like a RIB, full length) enabling heeling the boat the "wrong" way, ie to leeward, in light airs. The tall mainsail with the fat head, once there's a bit of apparent wind, would increase and stabilise the heel -- a big tall main is an excellent roll damper, once there is a knot or two of wind across it.

4) Swing keel, enabling balancing the boat, both trimwise and CoE-wise, with a dagger extension with ballasted tip (dagger extension keeps the slot and keel case short, and enables tailoring both the draft and the righting moment to the conditions)

Here's how (I hope !) it could all work together.

- The thing driving a hull to roll in a swell is the static stability. A wide plank (even with a ballast keel) will roll heavily when side-on to the seas. Shift the same keel to a round log and it won't roll at all. Cue the narrow waterline beam, and a keel with the shortest chord I can contrive. (Because in a big swell, the orbital motion extends well below the surface, and you don't want the keel to couple the boat to that motion)

- The reasons I'm aware of that sails slat in a cross-swell are:

a) insufficient area (particularly up high where there's more breeze)
b) insufficient boatspeed (sailing to windward - which is the best direction to sail in ultralight wind, even if it's the wrong direction; it'll get you to the new breeze more quickly, and in a much better frame of mind, because apparent wind is the key to stability)
c) insufficient angle of heel (gravity does wonders to keep the camber always in the correct direction
d) excessive hull-form stability, causing roll (see above)


The main sailhandling "enabling factor" is that the light-airs main would be reefed and stowed around a horizontal mandrel, enabling the medium-to-heavy airs main (battenless, hollow-leeched, "Swedish" style) to unroll from within the mast.

A further enabling factor is stored-energy drive, enabling quietly trickling through the occasional lull, maintaining the apparent wind, without having to run an engine. Otherwise it can take forever to get the boat moving again, with the swell shaking the wind from the sails.
Andrew Troup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 03:07   #58
Moderator Emeritus
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
The interesting question to me is how to design a boat which can sail in midocean in light winds, even with a left-over swell. I've been on a couple of racing yachts where this is possible, but never a cruising vessel.

A further enabling factor is stored-energy drive, enabling quietly trickling through the occasional lull, maintaining the apparent wind, without having to run an engine. Otherwise it can take forever to get the boat moving again, with the swell shaking the wind from the sails.
I Like the Nonsuch rigs and the Aerorig...... almost self seeking for the right wind.
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 06:23   #59
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 11,002
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

With the tradewinds in the carribean, you can probalby do better but...

I think the 50% sailing is wildly optimistic for running the ICW. I'm betting is more like 10-20% sailing based on the sailboats we see motoring along. Going out for day sails is where you might hit the 80-90% range because you can pick your heading or who cares if you just fart around for a couple hours and then turn and head back in.

I don't think cost factors in very much. When in travel mode, we move 2-3 times per week at 20-30miles per day. If it's all motoring, it's a whopping 8-10 gallons per week. We typically mix in longer stays every 2-3 weeks, so we are around taking maybe 4 gallons per week. Unless you have a really small budget, that isn't a deal breaker. If we had more patience and were willing to drop back from 6kts to 4kts, we could cut that consumption by half.
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 06:30   #60
Moderator Emeritus
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sail, sailing

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Record for time spent Hove-to micah719 General Sailing Forum 49 18-09-2016 04:25
Best Money You Spent... Mimsy Flotsam & Sailing Miscellany 47 28-04-2011 04:26
Liveaboard Maintenance Time Spent Per Week Agility Construction, Maintenance & Refit 10 09-01-2009 16:27
How I Spent My Afternoon... ssullivan Multihull Sailboats 31 07-05-2008 20:16
How much of a bluewater/open ocean boat do I actually need? Crossett Monohull Sailboats 36 21-05-2007 09:24

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:09.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.