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Old 06-05-2014, 16:14   #46
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pirate Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

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Originally Posted by weavis View Post
When Boatie61 skippered Rubessa from the UK, I heard the engine on a lot of the time.
It IS sailing, or part of it. Beats rowing anytime..


UK to San Vincente was pure sailing... even touched 18kts on a surf...
from there round to Duquesa was 80% motor sailing.. light winds..
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Old 06-05-2014, 18:32   #47
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Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

I guess with me its all about money. When Im travelling Im not working. When Im working im just running around inshore. Rarely sailing but fuel is factored into the work. The more I motor the more I have to work. last couple of trips travelling it was without a motor at all. Charleston to tampa solo engineless. Trip back from Keys to tampa no motor. I ran it to go under the 7 mi bridge then it died pulling anchor off cape sable. Hoping that problem is over now with new rust free fuel lines and replaced injector pump. My best memories of sailing were a 40 day trip from tampa around bahamas and back in a 23' sloop with no motor.
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Old 06-05-2014, 20:50   #48
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Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Owning a motorsailer, I'm obviously not a sailing purist.

My time on the water is divided fairly evenly 3 ways, 1/3 under sail only, 1/3 motoring, and 1/3 motor sailing.

The boat doesn't have the ultimate in sailing efficiency, but I'm ok with that. Instead it has a comfortable pilot house on the same level as the cockpit with great 360 degree vision. I don't really mind what the wind (or rain) is doing; I just adjust accordingly. Its all good.
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Old 06-05-2014, 22:03   #49
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Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

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... [my motorsailer] has a comfortable pilot house on the same level as the cockpit with great 360 degree vision. I don't really mind what the wind (or rain) is doing; I just adjust accordingly. Its all good.
I agree. Having a pilot house with a 360-degree is ideal especially having more than enough UV, water spray, wind, and so on, in an open cockpit.
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Old 07-05-2014, 01:45   #50
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Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Let's face it. Lot's of cruisers dislike beating upwind and will use the iron genny when they are faced with an uphill sail. At the same time, they hate very light winds (say under 8-10 knots) because they have to spend a lot of time trimming sails.

Conversely, many do not like winds over 10 knots, because now they have to pay attention to the boat, sail trim and steering.

So many, only use their sails when they have a beam reach or are sailing downhill in 8-18 knot winds.

I like those conditions also - unfortunately, we don't get them all that often up here in the Baltic............................

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Old 07-05-2014, 02:00   #51
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Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

I think its an age money thing...older sailors with deep pockets motor a lot more cause its easy peasy. Younger sailors with low budgets sail more because they don't want to buy the diesel plus they have higher energy and think nothing of setting the chute.
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Old 07-05-2014, 02:28   #52
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Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

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I think its an age money thing...older sailors with deep pockets motor a lot more cause its easy peasy. Younger sailors with low budgets sail more because they don't want to buy the diesel plus they have higher energy and think nothing of setting the chute.
Your theory falls apart when you have an older sailor with smaller pockets doesnt it........

I guess the poorer oldies will just have to drink Sanatogen and Bovril and creak to the foredeck and set the NOT cheap 'chute or Parasailor regardlesss

(for non Brits... the two drinks mentioned are energy drinks...Sanatogen "specially fortified for the over 45's"..)
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Old 07-05-2014, 02:59   #53
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Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

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Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
We already know most people rarely sail. I have seen 20 cruisers in the last 3 months, and only 2 were using their sails. I'm 99.9% sail and .1% sculling oar.

What I want to know is how much time when you are on CF are you also sailing? Currently I am close reaching at 4 knots in 7 knots of wind.
Lovely.!

Currently I am in the heads of yet another vessel being looked at by #3 nephew and am using a 7 inch tablet somewhere in Cardiff Wales. I too am close reaching with plenty of wind.
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Old 07-05-2014, 03:00   #54
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Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Yes my theory fails when your an old poor sailor but there are not that many.....really poor oldies but there sure are lots with deep pockets. These new big cats loaded to the gills for a million or two come to mind and they do motor a lot.
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Old 07-05-2014, 03:10   #55
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Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Yes my theory fails when your an old poor sailor but there are not that many.....really poor oldies but there sure are lots with deep pockets. These new big cats loaded to the gills for a million or two come to mind and they do motor a lot.

For the average Cat sailor aged above 50, if the vessel is 40 plus foot then its not going to be a cheap vessel. They have worked to get it and there will be money in the kitty to run it.

If a young 'un has one similar, then he has the same money to run it.

If the older guy has a modest smaller Cat, he might well still turn on the engine as it burns less than half a gallon an hour.

Unless a person is REALLY short on cash..... or has a stupid expensive gas guzzler... the engine goes on when it needs to.
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Old 07-05-2014, 03:20   #56
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Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

Traveling back now to Newport (Wales) after an early morning run to view two vessels. I thought #3 nephew had made his mind up on one particular boat but it seems he was unhappy about an area of sponginess on the deck.

In looking at the Marinas and boatyards, I see a lot of boats that have lain there for a long time, just needing some love and attention and putting back in the water. We dont know the stories behind th reason for the lack of use, some might be sad and some might be loss of interest in sailing..... Many people just walk away from things and dont look back.

What sailing is about in the South of England.

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Old 07-05-2014, 04:04   #57
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Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

The interesting question to me is how to design a boat which can sail in midocean in light winds, even with a left-over swell. I've been on a couple of racing yachts where this is possible, but never a cruising vessel.

Such a swell is usual, at least in my favoured oceans. Even the Southern Ocean has calms, often one per weather system, but there's almost always a swell travelling ahead of the next one.

For me, motoring on long ocean passages is not just impractical, it feels to me like skipping the slower-paced bits of a well-written book.

Those bits are often the best bits, and if I skip them, not only have I not read the book, but I won't even know what I've missed.

Here's my set of (hopefully!) enabling features:

1) Narrow waterline beam, wide beam on deck (plenty of topside flare)

2) Shortish, bulletproof mast, but a modernised sliding gunter, radial fathead, "light airs" mainsail with massive sail area up high, and a vertical leech up to the fathead (sliding gunter projecting well above the standing rig).

Lightweight (nylon?) mainsail cloth, replaceable (semi-disposable) rectangular panels between lightweight full length battens, attached with velcro, to 'blow out' if caught with too much sail up, to save busting the sliding gunter topmast. Leech and luff loads taken separately from sailcloth (by leech and luff lines)

3) Water ballast, acting at the wide gunwhale (carried in hypalon 'pontoons' like a RIB, full length) enabling heeling the boat the "wrong" way, ie to leeward, in light airs. The tall mainsail with the fat head, once there's a bit of apparent wind, would increase and stabilise the heel -- a big tall main is an excellent roll damper, once there is a knot or two of wind across it.

4) Swing keel, enabling balancing the boat, both trimwise and CoE-wise, with a dagger extension with ballasted tip (dagger extension keeps the slot and keel case short, and enables tailoring both the draft and the righting moment to the conditions)

Here's how (I hope !) it could all work together.

- The thing driving a hull to roll in a swell is the static stability. A wide plank (even with a ballast keel) will roll heavily when side-on to the seas. Shift the same keel to a round log and it won't roll at all. Cue the narrow waterline beam, and a keel with the shortest chord I can contrive. (Because in a big swell, the orbital motion extends well below the surface, and you don't want the keel to couple the boat to that motion)

- The reasons I'm aware of that sails slat in a cross-swell are:

a) insufficient area (particularly up high where there's more breeze)
b) insufficient boatspeed (sailing to windward - which is the best direction to sail in ultralight wind, even if it's the wrong direction; it'll get you to the new breeze more quickly, and in a much better frame of mind, because apparent wind is the key to stability)
c) insufficient angle of heel (gravity does wonders to keep the camber always in the correct direction
d) excessive hull-form stability, causing roll (see above)


The main sailhandling "enabling factor" is that the light-airs main would be reefed and stowed around a horizontal mandrel, enabling the medium-to-heavy airs main (battenless, hollow-leeched, "Swedish" style) to unroll from within the mast.

A further enabling factor is stored-energy drive, enabling quietly trickling through the occasional lull, maintaining the apparent wind, without having to run an engine. Otherwise it can take forever to get the boat moving again, with the swell shaking the wind from the sails.
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Old 07-05-2014, 04:07   #58
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Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
The interesting question to me is how to design a boat which can sail in midocean in light winds, even with a left-over swell. I've been on a couple of racing yachts where this is possible, but never a cruising vessel.

A further enabling factor is stored-energy drive, enabling quietly trickling through the occasional lull, maintaining the apparent wind, without having to run an engine. Otherwise it can take forever to get the boat moving again, with the swell shaking the wind from the sails.
I Like the Nonsuch rigs and the Aerorig...... almost self seeking for the right wind.
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Old 07-05-2014, 07:23   #59
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Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

With the tradewinds in the carribean, you can probalby do better but...

I think the 50% sailing is wildly optimistic for running the ICW. I'm betting is more like 10-20% sailing based on the sailboats we see motoring along. Going out for day sails is where you might hit the 80-90% range because you can pick your heading or who cares if you just fart around for a couple hours and then turn and head back in.

I don't think cost factors in very much. When in travel mode, we move 2-3 times per week at 20-30miles per day. If it's all motoring, it's a whopping 8-10 gallons per week. We typically mix in longer stays every 2-3 weeks, so we are around taking maybe 4 gallons per week. Unless you have a really small budget, that isn't a deal breaker. If we had more patience and were willing to drop back from 6kts to 4kts, we could cut that consumption by half.
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Old 07-05-2014, 07:30   #60
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Re: How much Time is spent Actually Sailing?

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