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Old 30-11-2010, 10:32   #31
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A Caprice mk1...
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Old 30-11-2010, 10:33   #32
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It's me Bob and I agree with pretty much everything you have told this guy.

You are right about hard chines. They add initial stability so the boat will have more of a role snap than a soft bilge boat. But they can be very beneficial if you are struggling to capture initial stability.
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Old 30-11-2010, 10:39   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob perry View Post
61:
It's me Bob and I agree with pretty much everything you have told this guy.

You are right about hard chines. They add initial stability so the boat will have more of a role snap than a soft bilge boat. But they can be very beneficial if you are struggling to capture initial stability.
Phew....
Thanks for that Bob... its reassuring to know I'm not quite as dumb as I sometimes think I am... would hate to put someone in harms way...
And I mean that most sincerely...
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Old 30-11-2010, 10:47   #34
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I think you are doing fine with this kid. He needs to go sailing in anything. He talks about designing his own boat and it's clear to me, at least, that he very little sailing experience.

He needs guidance.
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Old 30-11-2010, 13:23   #35
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Mr Perry thank you so much for reading! My desire to design is purely for fun and I don't expect to get anywhere near the pros. I agree I do need much more experience on the water and I'm hoping to crew different types of yacht on some coastal passages next season. At the moment my only experience is what I've learned at my local sailing club on RYA level 1&2 & Seamanship Skills courses. Here I am at the club:



I will consider buying secondhand as this will be much cheaper with a better initial result but I think it would be so much fun to design my own.

What would you say is the fastest type of design within my restrictions (ie less than 3' and able to beach)? I note a lot of fin keels on your website but they wouldn't beach.
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Old 30-11-2010, 14:19   #36
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A Cape Dory 25D appears to be fin-keeled and would fall over when beached as the tide goes out.

Bilge keelers are of interest. I've seen some secondhand that look ok for less than £3000 (although GRP ). I've inquired about the Eventide plans, although one sentence in the description worries me: "well able to face conditions offshore, to the extent of being able to right if ever knocked down." I always thought any boat going offshore must not only right itself when knocked down, but right itself even when upside-down! Although it's encouraging to hear that they've cruised the Med and Caribbean. An Eventide:


What is the average draft for a sea-going bilge keeler? And has anyone crossed an ocean in one?
I'm aware of several bilge/twin keelers that have crossed oceans but the ones I know of were production boats, including the 26-foot centaur with a draft of 3-0. You may find the Twin Keeler Newsletter of benefit: Twin-Keeler Newsletter: cruise reports
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Old 30-11-2010, 14:39   #37
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Stay in that Laser. When you can sail that you can sail pretty much anything.
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Old 30-11-2010, 16:04   #38
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If your thinking of going production I can seriously recomend the Hurley 22... they did a long fin and a bilge keeler... both encapsulated keels...
I took the fin version non-stop across the Biscay from Brixham, UK to Viviero, Nth Spain, in Nov - Dec '08 and rode out 50kt winds and 8 - 9 metre seas doing so...
The bilge keel version is just as stable and seaworthy but a tad slower... or there's the Corribee 21.. accomodations a bit more cramped and they're lighter and more skittish than the Hurley... more like a dinghy with a lid... keels also encapsulated..
Both types can be picked up for under 3 grand... the blue ones the Corribee

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Old 30-11-2010, 19:40   #39
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Its funny how when I knew nothing about boats I always looked at examples like these and thought "I'll never own such an ugly boring looking piece of plastic - I'll get something with more character." Of course I'd never seen or understood what's below the waterline, or the advantages or GRP. Thanks boatman61, it's encouraging to know that these boats can nip across to Europe

More importantly, how easy is it to lower the mast on the above boats? I don't see a tabernacle...are there any twin bilge keel production boats with masts that can be lowered and raised quickly to shoot a bridge?

Seems like for 3 or 4 grand I could sail away if I'm not too precious about materials or looks.

Quote:
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Stay in that Laser. When you can sail that you can sail pretty much anything.
I certainly will, every Sunday out sailing! Out come the dry suits and we keep going in the Winter season too...but I do wish the English Winter provided more steady winds. Or any wind for that matter. My girlfriend on a Laser Stratos at the club:

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Old 30-11-2010, 19:47   #40
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Whaddya mean UGLY.... I think my old Hurley looks sweet as a nut.....
Another advantage is the outboard sits in a well in the aft locker instead of hanging of the back... great in a seaway... stays in the water 95% of the time... can make a vital difference... Take a look at the Achilles 24 while your at it... same price range but more storage space etc....
Its easy enough to make a tabernacle...
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Old 30-11-2010, 21:39   #41
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I must say compared to most small GRP cruisers the Hurley 22 does have more classic lines... I agree she's a good looker. I'm beginning to see how they're built functional and efficient so now I see the beauty...

Dunno about Hurley 22 but the Achilles 24 has standing headroom of 4'6". Looks like a great boat though. In this production type with bilge keels how long does the boat need to be to give me standing headroom and still sail well? I'm 6'2" and don't forget my essential limitation: maximum 3' draft. Any examples?

An Achilles 24:


I suppose that's where flat hulls with leeboards or lifting keels have the upper hand, giving an extra foot headroom for the same freeboard, no?

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Old 30-11-2010, 22:00   #42
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Like you I'm 6'2".... the Hurley and Achilles share a 4.5ft headroom.... liveable in, and I'm 62... so a hardy young chap should have no probs..... lol
Always remember that a decent boom tent over the cockpit gives you that extra living space in fine weather...
If you want more headroom then you need to look at the Virgo Voyager 23 bilge keeler... but now your moving up to the 5K mark for something that'll be ready to sail... they come as outboard or inboard versions... obviously the inboard will cost more dosh.... they have a saloon table that slides up a post to fit flush to the cabin roof or drops down to make a double in the saloon... also a quarter berth to stbd... it has a V berth fwd but I found it to short so slept in the saloon double which was great... the toilet is stupid... its to stbd with a step just inside the door so you end up perched on the loo and it does not take much of a wave to send you bursting open the door and sailing into the sink opposite... I removed the door and loo and fitted a Talors heater in there instead and kept a porta potti in the V berth area and used the berth area for storage...
Minus points does not sail half as well as the others mentioned... the higher freeboard needed for the 6ft headroom causes a lot of windage/leeway... but a comfortable live aboard....
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Old 30-11-2010, 22:08   #43
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So, where do the Naval Architects come from? Bet they had dreams too.



Ok, let me re-phrase the previous post with a 3rd option

To be blunt, you don't design a boat. Thats what Naval Architects do, and they spend years, if not decades, learning their craft.

You have, I think,
3 possible solutions:

1. Buy 2 boats - one for puttering about on the Thames and 1 for blue-water offshore sailing

2. Buy a shallow draft multihull - it will be a bit of a compromise for both of your stated goals, but will probably do the job.


3. Make sure that you have about 10 O-levels and 5 A-levels. Your maths will need to be top notch and your physics too. Being a decent hand at drawing will help lots. Go to a good university and get a 1st class honours degree in Naval Architecture, take all the yacht-relevant specialties you can. Probably best get an Masters degree too. Get ajob with a reputable Naval Architects or yacht-building organisation and serve your “apprenticeship” for a decade or two detailing other peoples designs. Then you might get a chance to design your boat…

I don't mean to sound unduly negative, and for sure, everyone should have dreams. But...
Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow

And sometimes that shadow is a sonofabitch!
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Old 30-11-2010, 22:14   #44
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Originally Posted by Weyalan View Post
And sometimes that shadow is a sonofabitch!
Called James Wharram.............. ROTFLMAO
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Old 30-11-2010, 22:53   #45
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Originally Posted by Thames View Post
Mr Perry thank you so much for reading! My desire to design is purely for fun and I don't expect to get anywhere near the pros. I agree I do need much more experience on the water and I'm hoping to crew different types of yacht on some coastal passages next season. At the moment my only experience is what I've learned at my local sailing club on RYA level 1&2 & Seamanship Skills courses. Here I am at the club:



I will consider buying secondhand as this will be much cheaper with a better initial result but I think it would be so much fun to design my own.

What would you say is the fastest type of design within my restrictions (ie less than 3' and able to beach)? I note a lot of fin keels on your website but they wouldn't beach.
I'm new too, so I don't have anything to add here, other than to say, follow your dreams and where there's a will, there's a way.
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