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Old 26-08-2012, 14:26   #151
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Re: Hmmmm - Bowthrusters ??

Windage acts on the exposed surfaces of the boat, it is an equal pressure, bringing on some propwalk by actuating reverse will have a larger affect on the stern than the bow.

The emergent situation may not be improved by either fwd or aft motion.

Sadly the bow will fall away in the direction the wind is blowing too, in a tight situation you may as well fart over the rails.

No need to get personal to try to push a point i do accept rational argument in it's place. Cheers.....
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Old 26-08-2012, 14:27   #152
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We are sailing for DUBROVNIK on monday and will spend two nights in the Magical Port City, don't expect to see many boats without Thrusters there, holy crap Batman there are other places in this world other than America!!!!!!

Fair dinkum mate you need to get out more....
Well actually you'll spend two nights about a mike away at the aci marina up the river. Good marina though , pool, restaurants ( good one up the river on the far side)

Dave
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Old 26-08-2012, 16:33   #153
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Re: Hmmmm - Bowthrusters ??

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Any decent boater knows that making the stern move to starboard causes the bow to move to port. The two are connected you know. Bow or stern, a thruster causes the boat to rotate on it's axis. Skilled use of propwalk does exactly the same thing.
In both directions........?
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Old 26-08-2012, 17:00   #154
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Re: Hmmmm - Bowthrusters ??

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In both directions........?

I've only said it three or four times so far, but since that clearly wasn't enough, I'll say it again. No, not in both directions. That's where the planning and practice come in.
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Old 26-08-2012, 17:31   #155
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Re: Hmmmm - Bowthrusters ??

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I've only said it three or four times so far, but since that clearly wasn't enough, I'll say it again. No, not in both directions. That's where the planning and practice come in.
Don't get short with me sport!! i don't go back and read every bloody post again every time a new one comes up.....say what you mean in the first place and there is no need to....is that clear enough!!
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Old 26-08-2012, 19:00   #156
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Re: Hmmmm - Bowthrusters ??

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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Ah mine was a movie, You need to get out more mate.... You got it? Ahhh Jim Ahhh... LMAO
Yours was a TV show -- an American TV show -- long before it was an international movie.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. I move a lot of boats, some with no thruster and many with one. I practice both ways regularly. They just don't measure up for me. I'm glad you're happy with yours.
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Old 26-08-2012, 19:36   #157
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Re: Hmmmm - Bowthrusters ??

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Don't get short with me sport!! i don't go back and read every bloody post again every time a new one comes up.....say what you mean in the first place and there is no need to....is that clear enough!!
That was my point, I did say what I meant the first time and every time after, but you didn't seem to get it.
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Old 26-08-2012, 20:51   #158
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Re: Hmmmm - Bowthrusters ??

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That was my point, I did say what I meant the first time and every time after, but you didn't seem to get it.
Your the one not getting it! i don't recall every word and statement in every post, and i don't review every post before i reply.....

You made a definitive statement stating....
Quote:
Any decent boater knows that making the stern move to starboard causes the bow to move to port. The two are connected you know. Bow or stern, a thruster causes the boat to rotate on it's axis. Skilled use of propwalk does exactly the same thing.
Quote:
So for the sake of the argument i have just gone back through the whole thread and read every one of your post's (search function is very good for this) and could only find one post where you refer to propwalk working in one direction.....

Post #129..
Quote:
I think most cruisers considering a thruster retrofit would be better served by purchasing a Max Prop. Costs much less money, and the 50% increase in thrust in reverse gives you much better braking ability and creates a stronger propwalk that works almost like a thruster (in one direction). With a little practice and planning I think a Max Prop adds more close quarters maneuverability than a thruster for way less money. And it actually increases your performance under sail instead of decreasing it.
Now....if you can't remember what you posted, or more specifically how many times you supposedly posted a specific statement, then how do you expect anyone else to ? or do you feel so self righteous on the subject that all your word's should be engraved in people’s minds for future posterity ?
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Old 26-08-2012, 22:04   #159
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Oh brother.
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Old 26-08-2012, 22:48   #160
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Re: Hmmmm - Bowthrusters ??

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Oh brother.

No doubt. Some people get so upset when anyone suggests their cherished thruster is anything less than the greatest thing ever. Make a suggestion that you may be able to get a similar effect for less money and without the drawbacks and with some added benefits and they come out of the woodwork to jump all over you. I'd think arguing over whether that's a good suggestion or not would make a lot more sense than arguing over whether someone bothered to read all the posts in the thread before posting themself. I think these guys are just having a hard time coming up with a logical refutation of my statement, which was that for most cruising sailboats considering a thruster retrofit, I think they might be better served by considering a Max Prop instead. So instead they argue about semantics. Which I don't mind as they don't seem too good at that either...
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Old 26-08-2012, 22:53   #161
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Re: Hmmmm - Bowthrusters ??

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...used properly in reverse can be similar to having a uni directional thruster, with some practice and planning, without any of the drawbacks of a thruster. In fact just the opposite, it gives you better performance under sail as well.....


What about post #147? Didn't read it either?
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Old 26-08-2012, 23:06   #162
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Re: Hmmmm - Bowthrusters ??

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No doubt. Some people get so upset when anyone suggests their cherished thruster is anything less than the greatest thing ever. Make a suggestion that you may be able to get a similar effect for less money and without the drawbacks and with some added benefits and they come out of the woodwork to jump all over you. I'd think arguing over whether that's a good suggestion or not would make a lot more sense than arguing over whether someone bothered to read all the posts in the thread before posting themself. I think these guys are just having a hard time coming up with a logical refutation of my statement, which was that for most cruising sailboats considering a thruster retrofit, I think they might be better served by considering a Max Prop instead. So instead they argue about semantics. Which I don't mind as they don't seem too good at that either...
Your point lacks logic, you suppose the average Joe has the skillset/time to learn, windage in a tight marina berthing gets most of them in trouble.

On the non-average Joe ie a couple on a high windage or long yacht NOTHING brings the head over like a Thruster. Prop walk will do nothing for the bow in a wind/prop wash or tidal situation.

Cheers
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Old 26-08-2012, 23:12   #163
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Re: Hmmmm - Bowthrusters ??

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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Your point lacks logic, you suppose the average Joe has the skillset/time to learn, windage in a tight marina berthing gets most of them in trouble.

On the non-average Joe ie a couple on a high windage or long yacht NOTHING brings the head over like a Thruster. Prop walk will do nothing for the bow in a wind/prop wash or tidal situation.

Cheers
I seriously doubt most people on Cruisers Forum fall into the average Joe/weekend warrior category. After all it's a forum for people who cruise, which suggests they spend a lot of time at the helm and are probably pretty competent, as well as probably interested in methods by which they may acheive better manueverability, be that a thruster or feathering prop. I'm not saying a feathering prop is just a good as a thruster, never did. Just said it's almost as good, without the drawbacks of most thrusters, and with some added benefits, like 50% more thrust in reverse, which is a big deal in itself for manuevering in tight quarters. Or a stronger propwalk. Or dramatically reduced prop drag under sail.


Max prop claims here that they develop 80% more thrust in reverse, so maybe I'm wrong about that part.

http://www.max-prop.com/three-blade-classic.html
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Old 26-08-2012, 23:24   #164
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Re: Hmmmm - Bowthrusters ??

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
No doubt. Some people get so upset when anyone suggests their cherished thruster is anything less than the greatest thing ever. Make a suggestion that you may be able to get a similar effect for less money and without the drawbacks and with some added benefits and they come out of the woodwork to jump all over you. I'd think arguing over whether that's a good suggestion or not would make a lot more sense than arguing over whether someone bothered to read all the posts in the thread before posting themself. I think these guys are just having a hard time coming up with a logical refutation of my statement, which was that for most cruising sailboats considering a thruster retrofit, I think they might be better served by considering a Max Prop instead. So instead they argue about semantics. Which I don't mind as they don't seem too good at that either...
You still don't get it do ya!, i am not arguing with you about the pro's and con's of thrusters, that i already know and have no need to discuss it with you, what i am arguing with you about is your pompous ass attitude in your reply’s....and not just to me....

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What about post #147? Didn't read it either?
Grasping at straws now aren’t we.....
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Old 26-08-2012, 23:27   #165
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Re: Hmmmm - Bowthrusters ??

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
I seriously doubt most people on Cruisers Forum fall into the average Joe/weekend warrior category. After all it's a forum for people who cruise, which suggests they spend a lot of time at the helm and are probably pretty competent, as well as probably interested in methods by which they may acheive better manueverability, be that a thruster or feathering prop. I'm not saying a feathering prop is just a good as a thruster, never did. Just said it's almost as good, without the drawbacks of most thrusters, and with some added benefits, like 50% more thrust in reverse, which is a big deal in itself for manuevering in tight quarters. Or a stronger propwalk. Or dramatically reduced prop drag under sail.


Max prop claims here that they develop 80% more thrust in reverse, so maybe I'm wrong about that part.

Max-Prop Automatic Self-Feathering Sailing Propellers
You have a line of direction for your comment ie the 'experienced person'.

My line of examples was from the outset the charter industry that i've noted on this side of the Atlantic, most have Thrusters, Why?

Because on one hand the hirers group are very average, they fly in with a $150:00 boat licence and a credit card, prop-walk to them would likely mean using a walking stick.

The other group are very decent boaters who recognise the cramped and hectic berthing that occurs, they need all tools to keep clear of the above mentioned hazards.

As always there are many points to a debate, we were surprised to see a Thruster on our cat when we went through the inventory, i accepted it in my mindset once i trialled it using one engine only.

All with catamarans should try to berth their cat with one engine only in mild conditions, it is nearly impossible, as you previously alluded to the boat pivots about that centre. Ain't fun!

Yes whack a dinghy in the water and push the head around is the go but usually things go wrong at the wrong time.

Feathering props, heaps of reverse thrust go hand in hand with a good boat for sure but there are also other tools even 'decent' boaters can add.... Cheers
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