Hiring Repair Techs On Moonlighting Time??

[tikirawker]

I need some work completed on the water maker and refer.
(I have lost the battle too many times)
I found a local company that has techs but they bill $100/hr (usd).
I would imagine that the guy actually doing the work is making $30-40/hr.
My thought is to take advantage of the spread - I want to find the guy and offer him $50/hr cash.
He makes more and I save. win win

Now the hard part. How do I find the tech to make the offer?

[barnakiel]

How about walk the docks talk to other boaties?

Probably someone knows someone.

b.

[valhalla360]

Just remember, you are putting a families livelihood at risk.


That evil business owner doesn't just pay the guy $30/hr. They pay taxes on his salary, they pay health insurance, they pay for tools and supplies, they pay for advertising, they pay liability insurance in case he burns your boat to the waterline, the list goes on.


That guy gets caught stealing clients has a good chance he will be out of a job real quick.


Now if you can find an independent contractor who keeps overhead low and thus can charge lower rates, I'm all for that. A lot of marinas have bulletin boards or ask around with your dockmates as they may have a good alternative. What I've found is the good independent contractors, usually get so much work they eventually set up a more formal shop and hire staff becoming that evil business owner because it takes more overhead to run a larger business. Then their prices go up to cover the costs of running a business.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by tikirawker

I need some work completed on the water maker and refer.
(I have lost the battle too many times)
I found a local company that has techs but they bill $100/hr (usd).
I would imagine that the guy actually doing the work is making $30-40/hr.
My thought is to take advantage of the spread - I want to find the guy and offer him $50/hr cash.
He makes more and I save. win win

Now the hard part. How do I find the tech to make the offer?

False economy.

- you're not too wrong on the hourly, if the guy's an employee... but you cannot swing your own tools and a truck and insurance on $50 an hour billable.
- companies come down hard on their employees for doing this sort of thing. Such as firing. If I'm working overtime, possibly using the company's tools and vehicle, and putting my job at risk, it's gonna be for more than $50/hr.
- you have zero recourse if something goes south. Likewise, if you welch, the guy has no recourse.

It's not impossible to find people who do service under the table... but it's generally only after there's some level of trust and familiarity built up. Build your network, barter your own services.

btw, what do you bill your services at? That's what I always say to well-heeled types who want something done on the cheap.

[barnakiel]

Let's not glorify taxes.

It is PC but it is only one vision. There are also other visions and we cannot say here who is right and who only thinks they are.

People who want to pay more taxes should hire the most expensive company in their area. Others should be free to hire whom ever they please.

Otherwise it would be as if the OP were trying to evade taxes. This is clearly not the case.

DISCLOSURE: I both give and take jobs ex tax. Somehow, by the end of each day roughly 25c out of each 1$ I spend on materials, information, food and fun is tax.

Cheers,
b.

[Orion Jim]

Be careful. Sometimes you get exactly what you pay for.....or don't.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Let's not glorify taxes.

No ones glorifying taxes, just pointing out that the evil business owner sets the rates for a reason and having to pay taxes is part of the reason. It's a lot harder for a business to get away with tax fraud on employee salaries than a guy working under the table for cash.

Then again, taxes are actually not even the bulk of the overhead costs and if the guy working under the table doesn't commit tax fraud, he's going to eat up $5-10/hr out of that $50/hr rate when he does his income tax in april, so he really isn't making that much more.

Again the bigger issue is you are luring a guy into risking his families livelihood. Most business owners will fire an employee in a heartbeat if they poach clients for after hours jobs as they are fully justifiable in doing.

[exMaggieDrum]

In the yard I worked at every employee who moonlighted with a current customer was fired right away. There were always customers who tried to get the best guys in the shop to do that. The best guys never did.

Poaching customers after leaving was generally thought of as not good either but of course if the guy was fired and not just quit then you would expect that. The guys who got fired usually deserved it and they weren't the ones that got hired on the cheap. Nothing wrong with hiring whoever you want. Every one needs to make a living. Our marinas will not let any tech on the docks though unless they have a business license and insurance so that weeds out many of the wannabes. There are some excellent guys out there running solo though. I have hired a few and been very happy. But I never asked anyone to moonlight undercover.

I found that most customers liked having the shop back up all work. A lot of boat work does not completely fix the issue on the first pass. Most does but most boatowners know that part of this is art and part science and part luck. Our shop made things right in all cases and in some cases fixed things that the owner broke afterward and came back and tried to claim it was our shoddy work. I fired a couple of customers who tried to pull this s**t more than once.

On the other hand, the owner let me hire shop guys after hours to work on my boat in the shop yard. All out in the open. The guys effectively got overtime and I got a "reward" for being a good tech and getting along with every one for several years. If something had to be redone, I paid for it again. Mostly it didn't so everything worked out. I always pay my taxes so I hope the other techs did too but I suspect some didn't.

Taxes go to pay for all the stuff that everyone takes for granted - schools, roads, hospitals, etc. You may argue they are too high and government not very efficient. But having worked in the corporate world for 30 years I can tell you that corporations are not any more efficient. Amazing what happens when human beings get involved.

[tikirawker]

Bummer. Doesn't sound like anyone has had very much success trying this.
There are several different industries where moonlighting is normal.
If an employer can only afford to pay for 40 hours because overtime is too expensive then any employee should have the right to find more work.
That craftsman did take the time and effort to become highly skilled. They should do whatever is necessary to maximize the return on their personal investment.
I'm not big on debating politics as there isn't a perfect answer.
I understand low demand equals boutique industry which means higher prices - doesn't make it any less annoying...

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Let's not glorify taxes.

It is PC but it is only one vision. There are also other visions and we cannot say here who is right and who only thinks they are.

People who want to pay more taxes should hire the most expensive company in their area. Others should be free to hire whom ever they please.

Otherwise it would be as if the OP were trying to evade taxes. This is clearly not the case.

DISCLOSURE: I both give and take jobs ex tax. Somehow, by the end of each day roughly 25c out of each 1$ I spend on materials, information, food and fun is tax.

Cheers,
b.

Your post makes no sense.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by tikirawker

I need some work completed on the water maker and refer.
(I have lost the battle too many times)
I found a local company that has techs but they bill $100/hr (usd).
I would imagine that the guy actually doing the work is making $30-40/hr.
My thought is to take advantage of the spread - I want to find the guy and offer him $50/hr cash.
He makes more and I save. win win

Now the hard part. How do I find the tech to make the offer?

You don't walk into a business and try to get the employees to work for you on the side for less money.

Why don't you just look for an independent marine technician who is self employed? Ask around marinas, ask other boaters, etc.

Keep in mind that these people may or may not be as skilled as employees of major shops.

[Cottontop]

Originally Posted by tikirawker

There are several different industries where moonlighting is normal.

That craftsman did take the time and effort to become highly skilled. They should do whatever is necessary to maximize the return on their personal investment.

Moonlighting is one thing. Competing with your employer is something else.

Who do you think paid that craftsman, and for the training classes, etc., for that craftsman to become skilled? Who is providing the special tools, diagnostic hardware and software, etc. Doesn't the employer have a right to a return on its investment? If the craftsman wants to go into business for him/her self, have at it. But competing with your employer is dishonest.

[Kenomac]

I'd gladly work for $50 per hour on your watermaker. Now, you just need to get me there and back from Croatia.

BTW $100 per hour is outrageous to pay for someone to learn on the job.

Or better yet, call or PM Tellie or Rich on this forum for assistance with your watermaker. Watermakers are actually quite simple to repair.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by tikirawker

Bummer. Doesn't sound like anyone has had very much success trying this.
There are several different industries where moonlighting is normal.
If an employer can only afford to pay for 40 hours because overtime is too expensive then any employee should have the right to find more work.
That craftsman did take the time and effort to become highly skilled. They should do whatever is necessary to maximize the return on their personal investment.
I'm not big on debating politics as there isn't a perfect answer.
I understand low demand equals boutique industry which means higher prices - doesn't make it any less annoying...

You are mis-reading the responses.

There are independent guys doing work who are licensed, insured, etc... Because they don't advertise and operate a store front, they can often offer lower rates (though if they are good don't expect dirt cheap). No problem seeking them out. Some are great, absolutely incredible. Others...there is a reason their rates are low and it's not the low overhead. You are very dependent on word of mouth to find out how good they are and if they stand behind their work.

It's largely a myth that employers won't hire out guys once they reach 40hrs due to overtime expenses. Reality is they've already covered most of the overhead costs with the first 40hrs so even at 50% surcharge, they still make more profit running their guys 50-60hrs per week. because they are charging by the hour. In the rare situation where moonlighting is allowed, there is typically a very clear break between what the business does and what the moonlighting guy does. If there is even a remote chance of competition, moonlighting is not tolerated.

The guys who built up great technical skills typically have no problem getting all the hours they want and often the true craftsmen hate the business side...schmoozing customers, advertising, accounting, insurance, arranging with marinas to be able to work on site, etc... so it works well for them to work for someone who is good with doing those tasks and they can focus on the craft they've developed. The idea that working for someone is wasting their skills is false.

[newhaul]

I guess I'm one of those rare birds I charge a mere $50 USD per hour plus materials I have bussiness license and y for insurance and pay my taxes in April. I'm so busy its hard to find time to go sailing most of the time. My advertising is purely by word of mouth. So we are out there just ask around.