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Old 22-02-2015, 13:08   #31
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Re: Hinckley fever, and other ramblings ...

That is a cool boat! I am a big fan of pilot house boats. Already has a generator.
1985 Hank Hinckley 42 Pilothouse Ketch Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 22-02-2015, 13:40   #32
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Re: Hinckley fever, and other ramblings ...

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Originally Posted by PortClydeMe View Post
The OP would be me!
Yes, I like overkill, and redundancy, in spades. Especially with safety and self-sufficient remoteness in mind. If 2 is more than enough, I'll take 3, thank you.

Safety, plus back ups, plus many frozen sirloins, plus constant connectivity will make me a very happy cruiser. If Hinckley thinks a 50hp Yanmar is sufficient for the Newport set, then give me 100hp.
Yep, haven't forgotten you started the thread.

I am 100% in agreement with backups and for critical systems a backup for the backup. But there are cases where too much is worse. That would be the case with an engine. Somewhat more HP that standard is fine and I would recommend for those times when you need it. But for an engine, as Dockhead pointed out, if it is run constantly at way below it's rated output it is not healthy for the engine and at best can significantly shorten its life. At worst it could conk out when you need it the most.
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Old 22-02-2015, 13:48   #33
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Re: Hinckley fever, and other ramblings ...

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Originally Posted by PortClydeMe View Post
Dockhead, thank you so much! Excellent, excellent info! Exactly what I need to know, and learn. It would appear that you and I are of similar minds, business wise. If I may be so bold, what's your connectivity setting you back per month, on average? Disregard that question if you care not to share that info.

Thanks again!!
I spend on average probably $50 a month on mobile data, maybe $100 if I'm in multiple countries. The cost is negligible. That gets me 4 or 5 gigabytes of traffic, which is generally enough for me. With a full crew on board, everyone using the boat router, all bets are off. I'm probably going to set up separate routers for my business, and for guests, this year. The equipment cost is minor.

Sailmail for SSB/Pactor email costs is another $250/year, expensive for what it is, but necessary for business purposes, because the free Ham radio Winlink system must not be used for doing any kind of business.

You will want to add a normal satphone if you need to be reachable by phone for business purposes while offshore (I don't; email is enough for me, so my sat phone remains unactivated).

The equipment cost for HF radio/pactor is quite significant (can be $5000 or more depending on whether you do any of it yourself), but HF radio is extremely useful for long distance cruising for a number of different purposes. There's a lot of information on it in the archives and a splendid primer on using the popular Icom M802 SSB radio.
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Old 22-02-2015, 16:10   #34
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Re: Hinckley fever, and other ramblings ...

G'Day PortClyde,

I've been enjoying your fantasy and the responses that have fed it. There's been some good positive info offered, and some folks who have questioned the practicality of shoehorning all that stuff into a boat anywhere near the size that you propose. I find myself firmly in the "can't do it in that sort of boat" camp in general, but more importantly, the wonderful existence that you envision fails to consider the very significant maintenance and/or repairs that such a complicated and crowded boat will require.

If you had spent much time out cruising in recent times, you would have noted that folks with complicated yachts spend a lot of time waiting for parts and for repairers... and a lot of funds whilst doing so. It is, IMO, foolish to think that you will somehow not share those experiences. When one shoehorns huge amounts of "stuff" into a boat, access for maintenance is always compromised. When you add the burden of enormous tanks, enormous freezers, enormous engines and so on to the mix it becomes a practical impossibility. Your idyllic vision of a day in the Tuomotus becomes less realistic! Engines, watermakers, gen sets and so on all require lots of maintenance on frequent intervals. Some of the maintenance is not trivial in regards to skills required, and nothing you have posted suggests that you have such skills. Perhaps you do... then, are you prepared to break into your must-do business activities to perform the work?

And then your talk of cruising all those wonderful venues. Great places they truly are, but they are separated by lots of sea miles. Do you think that your overloaded boat and you are going to be well suited to make those passages? What will you do when your fridge breaks down at sea with all those sirloins hiding within? Or your watermaker springs a leak on the high pressure side? Or your genset craps out? I've seen multiple examples of all of those situations first hand, as have all the other experienced cruisers here on CF.

In short, I personally think that your combination of the Hinkley (beautiful yachts indeed), the massive luxury equipment requirements, the fail-safe redundancy, and the lifestyle you envision are not reasonably achievable. Scale up the boat size or scale down your demands or face a fiscal and possibly personal disaster.

It is likely that the "go for it mate" crowd will again call me a nay-sayer... but I've spent a long time out cruising, and the realities of the life are not always like what they tell you at the boat show. I do hope that you can reach a useful solution to your dreams, for it is a wonderful life.

Jim
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Old 22-02-2015, 17:17   #35
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Re: Hinckley fever, and other ramblings ...

Go to Morris who are still building sail boats. Show them your money and tell them what you want. You will have it in 2 years.
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Old 22-02-2015, 23:10   #36
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Re: Hinckley fever, and other ramblings ...

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Go to Morris who are still building sail boats. Show them your money and tell them what you want. You will have it in 2 years.
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That's exactly my time frame. I'm two years out, possibly sooner.
Morris makes nice boats, and I always viewed them as a Hinckley knockoff, but in a respectable way. Two things I find funky with Morris: 1) V-births that are open to the main saloon, and 2) their raised white bulkheads.

Hinckley still builds, and to order also. At the end of the day, I want to sit back in the nav station, tip an after-dinner single malt, and say "Damn, I love my teak and mahogany."

Something about Morris is just "off" for me, for lack of a better term.
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Old 22-02-2015, 23:28   #37
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Re: Hinckley fever, and other ramblings ...

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G'Day PortClyde,

I've been enjoying your fantasy and the responses that have fed it. There's been some good positive info offered, and some folks who have questioned the practicality of shoehorning all that stuff into a boat anywhere near the size that you propose. I find myself firmly in the "can't do it in that sort of boat" camp in general, but more importantly, the wonderful existence that you envision fails to consider the very significant maintenance and/or repairs that such a complicated and crowded boat will require.

If you had spent much time out cruising in recent times, you would have noted that folks with complicated yachts spend a lot of time waiting for parts and for repairers... and a lot of funds whilst doing so. It is, IMO, foolish to think that you will somehow not share those experiences. When one shoehorns huge amounts of "stuff" into a boat, access for maintenance is always compromised. When you add the burden of enormous tanks, enormous freezers, enormous engines and so on to the mix it becomes a practical impossibility. Your idyllic vision of a day in the Tuomotus becomes less realistic! Engines, watermakers, gen sets and so on all require lots of maintenance on frequent intervals. Some of the maintenance is not trivial in regards to skills required, and nothing you have posted suggests that you have such skills. Perhaps you do... then, are you prepared to break into your must-do business activities to perform the work?

And then your talk of cruising all those wonderful venues. Great places they truly are, but they are separated by lots of sea miles. Do you think that your overloaded boat and you are going to be well suited to make those passages? What will you do when your fridge breaks down at sea with all those sirloins hiding within? Or your watermaker springs a leak on the high pressure side? Or your genset craps out? I've seen multiple examples of all of those situations first hand, as have all the other experienced cruisers here on CF.

In short, I personally think that your combination of the Hinkley (beautiful yachts indeed), the massive luxury equipment requirements, the fail-safe redundancy, and the lifestyle you envision are not reasonably achievable. Scale up the boat size or scale down your demands or face a fiscal and possibly personal disaster.

It is likely that the "go for it mate" crowd will again call me a nay-sayer... but I've spent a long time out cruising, and the realities of the life are not always like what they tell you at the boat show. I do hope that you can reach a useful solution to your dreams, for it is a wonderful life.

Jim
D'day, Mate! Thanks for the comments. No worries. Personally, I refrain from terms such as "fantasy", "practical impossibility", and "not reasonably achievable" when I am not privy to financial details. But, whatever makes your sun shine.

You might have noticed that I'm talking about purchasing a Hinckley, not a Hunter. I'm not clipping coupons, and yes, I will be eating whatever I want, including NY sirloins. You don't like a nice steak? I sure do!

If this sets your mind at ease a little, my only concern is about 24/7/365 Net connectivity. Gotta keep the clients happy, while cruising. Spent many years in the Greek Islands (my ex is Greek), the Bahamas, and yes, I agree they are nice places. If I'm ever too lazy, or too busy, to cross big blue, I'll ship it. Done.

Just so you know, I was in 20-foot swells with 30-foot visibility 5 miles out when I was 7. In Maine, wrong moves equal rocks, not sand. Not too worried about a water maker line coming loose. I'll buy new. Red, right, returning ... and I won't be slapping solar panels all over the foredeck.

Thanks again.
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Old 23-02-2015, 01:43   #38
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Re: Hinckley fever, and other ramblings ...

Have you had a look at Pacific Seacraft in NC?
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Old 23-02-2015, 02:39   #39
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Re: Hinckley fever, and other ramblings ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PortClydeMe View Post
D'day, Mate! Thanks for the comments. No worries. Personally, I refrain from terms such as "fantasy", "practical impossibility", and "not reasonably achievable" when I am not privy to financial details. But, whatever makes your sun shine.

You might have noticed that I'm talking about purchasing a Hinckley, not a Hunter. I'm not clipping coupons, and yes, I will be eating whatever I want, including NY sirloins. You don't like a nice steak? I sure do!

If this sets your mind at ease a little, my only concern is about 24/7/365 Net connectivity. Gotta keep the clients happy, while cruising. Spent many years in the Greek Islands (my ex is Greek), the Bahamas, and yes, I agree they are nice places. If I'm ever too lazy, or too busy, to cross big blue, I'll ship it. Done.

Just so you know, I was in 20-foot swells with 30-foot visibility 5 miles out when I was 7. In Maine, wrong moves equal rocks, not sand. Not too worried about a water maker line coming loose. I'll buy new. Red, right, returning ... and I won't be slapping solar panels all over the foredeck.

Thanks again.
Well, you seem to have all the answers, and the firm belief that throwing money makes problems go away, and a goodly supply of said money. Wonderful for you... what could possibly go wrong?

Considering all that, I'm left with the question of why are you posting here? What use could we be to you? Perhaps you want us to tell you how great your boat will be, I dunno.

Please do send a postcard when you splash the boat... and another one from your idyllic anchorage in the Tuomotus. We will all admire your accomplishment.

Jim
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Old 23-02-2015, 04:17   #40
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Re: Hinckley fever, and other ramblings ...

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Well, you seem to have all the answers, and the firm belief that throwing money makes problems go away, and a goodly supply of said money. Wonderful for you... what could possibly go wrong?

Considering all that, I'm left with the question of why are you posting here? What use could we be to you? Perhaps you want us to tell you how great your boat will be, I dunno.

Please do send a postcard when you splash the boat... and another one from your idyllic anchorage in the Tuomotus. We will all admire your accomplishment.

Jim
Jim, while I appreciate good sarcasm, I feel a need to defend the OP. He gave a list of requirements, saying nothing about financial limitations. None of us asked what, if any. But then we all answered from the aspect of financial limitations we personally chose.

Now, my response is still it sounds more trawler than sail, but the OP wants sail. So to that, it sounds like a much larger sail boat and one requiring a professional full time crew or, at minimum, tremendous experience in all the electrical and mechanical aspects of a boat and a large supply of parts on board. It is not a boat at that point to be comfortably operated single handed simply because all the electronics and equipment have added greatly to the complexity and the amount of work to be done while sailing. Typically at the size and complexity he's asking about I'd see a crew of three. A captain, a stew and an engineer.

Now if this isn't in the OP's picture, then something does have to go. Either some of his sailing goals or some of the equipment and amenities.

Now I would push this back to the OP as to what his purchase budget limit is and what his budget for annual operating costs are. Has he considered the size and costs to accomplish all he wants?

Then based on that, we'll know whether all the recommendations made here are still appropriate or not. I would predict they are. For instance a 2007 67' Oyster would be in the $2.2 to $2.5 million range and a 2014 80' Sunreef around $6.3 million or something in the 67' range around $3 to $3.5 million. The annual costs of operating any of those, including crew, maintenance, sails, and fuel would be in the range of $300,000 to $400,000.

A trawler in the 60' range can be owner operated but again I wouldn't head across the Atlantic without engineering support and another operator. A 56' Nordhavn Motorsailor would fit in and perhaps cover all his needs. I'm guessing one of those is going to run $3 million to $4 million and while they can be owner operated, one better be prepared for a lot of equipment repairs so I still to a $300,000 to $400,000 annual budget.

Now I throw it back to the OP. Generally there are very few people here with budgets such as that. If yours isn't then you need to go back to your requirements. As you've currently stated them, they take a lot of boat, an expensive boat and a high annual cost. They still can't be accomplished on a 40 something Hinckley. Every boat is a compromise. Are the financial numbers I've shown within your budget or, if not, where are you willing to compromise your original list?
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Old 23-02-2015, 05:01   #41
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Re: Hinckley fever, and other ramblings ...

Threads like this are such fun.

I love youse all.


PT Barnum keeps coming to mind
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Old 23-02-2015, 06:17   #42
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Re: Hinckley fever, and other ramblings ...

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I envision an average day going something like this: I'm anchored far away from anywhere, with no humans or WiFi in sight (imagine a very remote atoll in the S. Pacific). I wake up, make some coffee, go topside and flip open my MacBook Pro Retina, fire up the Internet, check my business mail, download some heavy files, fire back some quick e-mails, including heavy files, close the laptop, yawn, take another sip of coffee, and then dive in for a swim. All done from the middle of absolute nowhere, with both freezers fully stocked, endless hot and cold pressurized water, more electricity than I know what to do with, and a few hundred gallons of diesel always on tap. Total self sufficiency for months on end.
Well, in the words of the sheriff in JAWS - "You're gonna need a bigger boat..."

Something like this would probably fit the bill. I'm sure you could get Nordhavn to do an interior in mahogany...

:-)




Seriously, to have the capability to "be self-sustaining for months at a time", be running multiple freezers in the tropics and still "have more electrical power than you know what to do with... without the boat looking like a solar/wind 'camper's paradise' ", well... that ain't gonna happen in something that's gonna remotely resemble a Hinckley Sou'wester 42 or 51... Plus, stuffing all that crap into such a boat, engines "twice as big" as the designer would spec, the massive amount of fuel tankage required to be producing the requisite power for months at a time in remote locations "without the need to ever jerry-jug fuel to the boat...", and so on... all that is gonna transform a Hinckley SW-er into such a dog under sail, you may as well go with an expedition-style motoryacht, anyway... :-)

You might want to talk to Bob Perry, he's doing a beautiful design to be built by Hinckley, for the current owner of the last SW 42 they built...

Robert H. Perry Yacht Designers, Inc. Currently in Design





Bob should be able to bring you back down to earth, in explaining the impossibility of "Having it All" in the size and style of the sort of boat you envision...

:-)
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Old 23-02-2015, 06:29   #43
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Re: Hinckley fever, and other ramblings ...

Here's a 52' Souwester that already has a generator & a water maker so that's clearly doable. It's got an 88hp Yanmar so the motors already quite large. I'd be surprised if it didn't already have adequate tankage but if you want to add more tanks you can always find somewhere to put them on a boat this big. However, if your watermaker is working you don't need to store a ton of water. I'm not sure about the galley but looking at the photo it looks like there's 2 hatches on the counter so one might be a freezer. You could always pull the single berth on the starboard side & add the freezer there. If you're talking about 1 or 2 people this boat has a ton of room & shows that what you are looking for is clearly possible. Just pick one & do it.


However, if you're flush with cash, why not contact Hinckley & get what you really want, a boat made to your specifications. I guarantee that if you contact Hinckley, tell them what boat you want & give them your list of requirements they will say no problem, just sign on the dotted line. I can't think of anything that would be more fun than that!


1992 Hinckley Sou'wester 52 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 23-02-2015, 07:01   #44
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Re: Hinckley fever, and other ramblings ...

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Here's a 52' Souwester that already has a generator & a water maker so that's clearly doable. It's got an 88hp Yanmar so the motors already quite large. I'd be surprised if it didn't already have adequate tankage but if you want to add more tanks you can always find somewhere to put them on a boat this big.
Perhaps, but such add-ons will rarely wind up being placed in an ideal location... :-)

Closer to the ends of the boat, or above the waterline, are most likely to be the only spaces available to such an 'upgrade', and hardly the sort of 'improvement' the boat's designer would be likely to endorse...

Hinckleys are marvelous boats, no doubt about it... But the OP might want to seriously think about why one so rarely sees them 'out there', and why they appear to be an atypical choice for world cruising or extended voyaging...
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Old 23-02-2015, 07:08   #45
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Re: Hinckley fever, and other ramblings ...

PortClydeMe
Your objective can be achieved with a larger boat as most of the members have pointed out. One of the key requirements you make is the teak decks and wood interior. That is not going to be something you will get in a new boat these days.It would take a custom build and be very expensive.However there are boats out there that can be purchased and updated with the requirements you specify.I personally love my Little Harbor 58 for example.It has all the requirements specified including redundancy is navigation and safety.
It is definitely a blue water cruiser, and stands up to a heavy sea, and with the board retracted; it sails well in Southwest Florida and the Bahamas.It has everything you mentioned and also has an Espar heater which is wonderful in the colder climates like Maine and Nova Scotia.I suggest you add that to your list.
My wife and I can handle the boat real well without additional crew since it is mostly push button on the sheets and halyards.We are currently repowering the boat from a 135 hp Perkins to a 210 Cummins because we often motor sail to meet schedules which I don’t like but find necessary when guests are aboard.The 12.5KW generator does just fine operating the 600 gallon per day water maker and charging the 12 and 24 volt system batteries.Operating the gen and motor and moving at 7 Knots, we have a range of 1200 miles without sails.Generally speaking engines on sailboats are underpowered to start with, and intended to be auxiliaries for docking and tight quarters maneuvering.
My point is to not get discouraged by the trips and traps of negativity often expressed in many of the posts on this thread.But be sure you realistically calculate your maintenance and operating costs because it is not just purchasing the boat and provisioning that needs to be accounted for in owning such a boat.I can’t speak to the WIFI costs; I merely have a KVH 252 Sat phone and a SSB/Pactor modem which are slow and relatively expensive on air time.
I can’t pin down the electronics to any one system because you could buy something every day trying to keep up with the upgrades and new products that keep coming on line to use.I would suggest that you will find the boat with acceptable systems already on board then you can work with and upgrade from there.I am not a believer in a one size fits all electronics package.I have B & G, Furuno, Nobeltec, and Garmin.
Good luck with your search, buy the biggest boat you can handle and afford.Sounds like you have some time to spend searching.It took me a year to find one that I liked well enough to buy and I had most of the shopping list that you have listed.You might consider 10% of the price per year is spent on maintenance and upgrades once the boat is fitted out the way you want it.And…..it will never be the way you want it completely.That’s why we varnish and upgrade continuously and mess around with boats.Every dollar you spend is feeding someone and their family somewhere.

Bob
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