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Old 16-12-2008, 16:29   #31
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Face it guys- canoe sterns are all about curves, but then again I didn't buy a 69 Porsche because it was shaped like a Rambler. Bob does have a point about the helm though- when I put a V-40 through its paces I was amazed that the helm steer didn't change with the heel of the boat. (there was almost none the entire time) Now try the same thing with a Benet!
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Old 16-12-2008, 17:23   #32
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Ref: "I am a firm believer that you gotta love it. I mean it has to grab you. It is like a motorcycle. Guys will go on and on about how this is good and this is better....but the bottom line is they love it. It is an emotional purchase."

To put it another way - think about, as you row away from her at anchor, that she's the most beautiful boat you've ever seen and you can't wait to return!
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Old 16-12-2008, 19:39   #33
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Its funny, that boat is right beside mine at dowry creek marina (it is the Columbia 41 in the background with the black windows.) I can tell you, that HC 33 is something to be envied. Many online pictures make a boat look better than it really is, that one looks perfect in person too. It seems to have every nic-nac a cruiser could want and seemed to be truly loved. This is just at a glance, not that Ive been drueling over it, which I have been.
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Old 16-12-2008, 21:35   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob perry View Post
Apart from the appealing look of a double ender I can't really think of any advantages unless you plan on doing your cirncumnavigation is reverse.
Thanks for participating and thanks for the smile

There's an idea add a symetrical rig, reverse the sails when you want to go home and get rid of the rudder.
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Old 16-12-2008, 23:19   #35
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Circumnavigation in Reverse

Quote from Bob Perry:

"Apart from the appealing look of a double ender I can't really think of any advantages unless you plan on doing your cirncumnavigation is reverse."

Ohh Boy... I get to pose a question to the same thread Bob Perry is on. Fantastic! Here it goes:

If having a double ender helps my reverse motion, doesn't this imply that it would also help me in a following sea?

Or am I so dumb, I can't tell facetious when I see it and a front for a back hasn't even a speck of advantage to a backing up circumnavigator?

This is probably the case because I can't seem to figure out how to post quotations in that nice little blue box like everyone else here can.

In deference to the original post, I sure like the HC33 that Bill has found. It looks turn key and ohh soo perdy. It would be hard not to court that boat, if I had the money. As to the stern shape that so many apparently love, yes I think it is a Freudian or Jungian thing going on here. What say the ladies?
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Old 17-12-2008, 07:38   #36
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One way of thinking about it...

There is a real difference in the amount of turbulence if you stick a round peg in the water and pull it through, compared with if you stick a square peg in the water and pull it through. But a human hand is probably not sensitive enough to feel that difference because it's just not all that dramatic.

You'd notice it if, as Bob suggests, you tried to go around the world in reverse. If all of your time was spent running from storms, you might notice it too. But most sailors try to avoid that.

(Incidentally, because of the nature of fibreglass being, essentially, a floppy construction material from an engineering point of view, the curve may be slightly stronger geometrically, but there's almost no incidents where the stern of any boat comes apart under the effects of waves alone.)
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Old 17-12-2008, 09:18   #37
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Great thread about the design of boats. I was looking at a Tayana 42 on Tuesday and listened to a broker for about 15 minutes tell me about how great the rear end on this boat was. It was great to see Perry's comments on transom design.

For my day job, I am the designer of high end microscopes that are used for Nanotechnology research. We have the same types of "beliefs" in these designg, that are mostly rumors started by sales staff to differentiate products.
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Old 17-12-2008, 09:42   #38
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I am very partial to the HC38. My wife and I had a great time cruising for 2.5 years. If you cruise full time, don't worry about the maintenance too much - Yes there is alot but it is worth it.

The boat took great care of us.

I was unable to follow the link but If the HC you are looking at in in New York, it may hav been ours. I understand that ours is for sale again.
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Old 17-12-2008, 09:45   #39
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I'd be interested in Bob Perry's comments on the HC38. I understand that there is a story there but have never heard comments from Bob about it.
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Old 17-12-2008, 09:56   #40
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A boat purchase is definitely an "emotional" purchase, especially in the early years of boating. As time goes on, common sense and a look back at the money lost, make you a better negotiator because you are less emotionally attached. If you can find 2 or 3 boats you like, then you have a good situation. Once I bought a boat by making an offer on the #1 boat on my list and telling the broker if it was rejected, I was making an offer on the other boat I was interested in. I let both brokers know I was simply going to alternate offers, so if they want the sale they better just accept the offer!! It was almost mean... but it worked.
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Old 17-12-2008, 11:18   #41
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HC38:
There is No story there. It is not my design. I had nothing to do with it other than an early and unhappy association with John Edwards, the guy who started HC. I did design the HC 34.

Canoe sterns:
The way I look at it is that you want your boat to be moving forward all the time (docking situations aside). Once the boat moves forward all the arguments , almost all the arguments favor a transom mostly from a distribution of volume point of view.

Sure an overtaking wave would lose some of its impact on the stern, If the wave is hitting the stern dead on and that's unliklely, but some sailors might prefer to gain the lift from the volume of the stern with a transom. It's such a dynamic situation that I can't imagine having one slution that works best for all the problems.

" Go forward and put the small jib up dear and when you get that done would you bolt on the canoe stern".
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Old 17-12-2008, 12:25   #42
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Thanks again for all the useful information. As many have said, it all comes down to what a person likes. I guess that these double ended boats have been around for a few years and likely will be here a few more.


The mast is in the middle and it looks like the main will fill in from either direction. No need to gybe or jibe anymore. Just turn around in your seat and go home. I'm not really sure about those 32 fulcrum assisted manual propulsion devices though. The crew feed would kill my cruising budget.

Seriously, you have all given me much to ponder and many alternatives. The opinions have all been well founded and many garnered from first person experience. You folks are great. I feel so enlightened I may not need to take up Yoga.
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Old 18-12-2008, 07:01   #43
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Double ended boat virgins

We have owned seven sailboats and all the boats that had transoms made noises at night that kept us awake. None of the double enders make that slapping noise when a wave has no place to go and pounds that last bit of energy into your hull. There are other benfits also. No transom equates to no ugly water stains or soot on the transom, cause there is no transom. No transom also means there is less hull to wax, if you are so inclined. I am sure there as other benefits, but I have not figured them out yet!
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Old 18-12-2008, 13:16   #44
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Advantages of a transom. Somewhere to hang your monitor windvane, dinghy davits, put swimsteps and makes a larger interior volume for equal LOD and more flotation in the stern. I do like sailing double enders too but in my last sail we did fill the cockpit of the Ingrid 38 4 or 5 times. It can happen and the Moses effect didn't help us.
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Old 18-12-2008, 23:18   #45
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Quote:
It can happen and the Moses effect didn't help us.
Moses effect , my iced tea just dribbled out my nose.
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