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Old 07-07-2009, 10:33   #1
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Help with Boat Choice

I was getting closer to deciding on a boat but after talking to more people I am once again totally confused. What I want to do is take the boat back and forth between Nova Scotia and the Carribbean and then after some years cross the Atlantic to cruise the Mediterranean. I hate Canadian winters!

My max price is 100,000 Canadian.

My questions are as follows:

1. What is the ideal size? I am looking at 38 max and 35 min. Is 35 too small?

2. Should I buy a newer boat even though it is a Hunter etc. or should I buy an older boat such as a Niagara, Tartan, Sabre or IP?

3. I like the IP35 or 38 but do they really sail badly?

4. Is a freshwater boat worth that much more than a saltwater one?

Thank you.
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Old 07-07-2009, 14:49   #2
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your budget says late 1980's boat and your destinations call for a serious blue water boat. Size is a function how much stuff you need to haul. Cruising is best to think of in terms of "pickup truck" not "sports car". You won't be going any place super fast nor have the need to do so. Your budget just won't allow it. 35 to 38 ft might be as far as the money goes given that you'll spend $15K to $20K adding and upgrading. My numbers would USD. Older boats are - older. No matter what anyone says you'll spend more money even if you just add safety gear and spare parts and just gear that you have to carry on. Some items will need tending to or upgraded.

Quote:
Is a freshwater boat worth that much more than a saltwater one?
My judgment says no. A northern boat has had winter and a southern fresh water boat has not. Big huge difference. It's about the maintenance not where it lived.

I think if you just start looking at how the money works for you then the choices start to shake out. You won't be looking at any 46 Hylass boats. I know Mike Gozzard has a few Gozzard 41's that might be a deal but those are out side your budget too.

If you start to work from only price and the need to carry stuff, lots or water, and lots of fuel a whole lot of boats fall out as unacceptable. You need a bare minimum of 2 tons of stuff. You might find 3 to 4 tons to be closer to comfortable.

I think you'll find you need to be at least late 1980's or the upgrades could take more money and more time. Upgrading a boat is not like dropping the car off at the dealer for an engine swap. It takes a lot of time. After the upgrades there is the shake down and the last little bit learning how to handle that boat under extraordinary conditions not just on a nice Sunday with 10 knots of breeze on flat water. The preparation and planning takes a lot of work.

Quote:
I like the IP35 or 38 but do they really sail badly?
It's the skipper - really.

Sabre, Niagara, IP Tartan are the usual suspects as well as a very long list of other in that type. Some things to note IP's are big for their numerical length. The 31 is huge. So the key is to look at a beam and displacement to help equalize the various boats lengths.

The last ingredient is experience. You need ways to build up to the type of goals you have in mind. From this experience you'll better understand how and why things work and you'll make better decisions. There is a lot her to read and it's a good start but going out and sailing and anchoring builds the base you need for longer trips.
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Old 07-07-2009, 14:53   #3
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Having just gone through the search and purchase process, I understand how daunting it can be! Others will weigh in, but here's my 2 cents.

1. What is the ideal size? I am looking at 38 max and 35 min. Is 35 too small? Size is relative- who are you sailing with?

2. Should I buy a newer boat even though it is a Hunter etc. or should I buy an older boat such as a Niagara, Tartan, Sabre or IP? FOr the type of sailing you are planning, especially the Trans-Atlantic runs I would tend to go with an older, sturdier boat rather than a Hunter. Hunter's are nice, but they aren't designed to hold up to really rough weather conditions.

3. I like the IP35 or 38 but do they really sail badly? I will let others voice their dissent, but I love the IP 350. We almost bought one. The only reason we didn't was because my husband did not care for the "tug like" lines of the boat and wanted something a bit quicker. I thought since we were spending a large portion of our disposable income, it was important that everyone love it.

We sea trialed the IP350 in 20-30 knot winds with tons of chop and flukey wind and she was steady and comfortable. She pointed better than the husband expected and handled just fine. I am a nervous helmsman and I felt totally comfortable on the IP, even in weather. If you want a fast boat, this is not the boat for you. If you want something that is comfortable in weather, sturdy and has tons of living space you will love it. There are three of us going cruising and the IP 350 had plenty of room for us to be comfortable.

4. Is a freshwater boat worth that much more than a saltwater one? I don't think so. I would much rather have a well cared for salt water boat than a neglected fresh water one any day. Condition and maintenence trumps all!

Good luck!
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Old 07-07-2009, 17:34   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mparent View Post
I am looking at 38 max and 35 min. Is 35 too small?


35 is far too small. The bigger the better. Our 39 footer is fine! Except its small for the fleet average and getting too small for us!

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Originally Posted by mparent View Post
2. Should I buy a newer boat even though it is a Hunter etc. or should I buy an older boat such as a
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Niagara, Tartan, Sabre or IP?
"Though its a Hunter etc"!! Have you SEEN or SAILED on a Hunter, Beneteau, Catalina etc??????? I don't think so!
For outright luxury at an affordable price look at the Catalinas and Hunters. If you plan your passages at the best times of the year and avoid Cape Horn you will be fine! Care needed near Nova Scotia, of course.

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3. I like the IP35 or 38 but do they really sail badly?


They are quite expensive boats and $100k would just buy you an old crap boat waiting to sink beneath your feet.
But for $100k would get you quite a good production boat!

Do you remember the last time you bought a hand built car?
No? None of us have since Henry Ford perfected the production line. Its now doing the same for boats.

Some boats these days may be over built to allay peoples fears of peril on the high seas. If people have scared the blazers out of you then is the correct reaction buying a heavier boat or learning about the realities of voyaging?



If you had US$1 million then my answer would be differnt


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Old 08-07-2009, 05:57   #5
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**edited**
My post should correctly read 20- 30 MPH, not Knots.
That is all.
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Old 08-07-2009, 06:21   #6
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I'll just throw two out there to put on your list:

Tayana 37
Pacific Seacraft Crealock 37

both beautiful, seaworthy, high load-carrying cruising boats. A newerish T37 or an olderish Crealock would be within your budget.
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Old 08-07-2009, 06:38   #7
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Quote:
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35 is far too small. The bigger the better.
Why?

People have circumnavigated in very seaworthy 17' boats. 30 years ago 27' was avarage size for a scandinavian circumnavigator, today I guess avarage is closer to 37'. Isn't it really a matter of what you need or want to carry with you, and the level of comfort you need? 25' isn't too small for crossing the Atlantic and 35' certainly isn't, unless you feel the need for space. We're all different and what's too small for one person might be too big for the other.

My advice to the original poster is to judge every boat individually and disregard the numbers completely. My personal choice would be to go for a sturdier, older boat rather than a newer production boat.

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Old 08-07-2009, 06:52   #8
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I think a Wauquiez Hood 38 sounds like the perfect choice.

They are extremely well built from a Ted Hood design that is a proven performer. They are well respected offshore cruisers that have a very comfortable sea kindly motion but are quite fast. Their shoal draft allows you to pass through shallows and anchor places that Valiant 40's could never go and they have more space and a more comfortable living plan down below, with two private staterooms.

They are priced less than a similar Pacific Seacraft 37 or Valiant 40 but offer the same offshore quality with better accomodations down below (larger vee berth, larger aft qtr cabin and larger dinette than either of those two) and still have plenty or storage. They have less teak to care for than a Tayana.

The deck plan on these boats is simple but incredibly functional, you have a lot of security working up there, but the rig gives you plenty of options for rigging the sail handling lines for single handed sailing.

And they are a joy to sail, safe, secure and fun. At 22,000 lbs displacement, they are a lot of 38 and would serve you well.

Look for a MK II version, 1983-1989.

Hope this helps

best

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Old 08-07-2009, 16:54   #9
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Why?
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People have circumnavigated in very seaworthy 17' boats. 30 years ago 27' was average size for a Scandinavian circumnavigator, today I guess average is closer to 37'. Isn't it really a matter of what you need or want to carry with you, and the level of comfort you need?


Hi Hampus,

Boat size will always be an opinion, different boats for different folks.

Yes, people have sailed in 17 footers, but that was probably a solo sailor without a Nicolle on board.

As a friend said to me the other day: I try to make life comfortable for my wife.

To do that one needs a boat bigger than a bath tub, but preferably with a Bathtub onboard!

As I look around this anchorage with 130 boats heading to Indonesia I see the average size boat is well above 37 feet.
See the entry list and average the sizes
http://www.sailindonesia.net/news/entries.php

The average of the snippet I counted was 45 feet.

This is a free rally and basically the only way to go through Indonesia this year so it is a good selection of circumnavigating boats via the tropics.

If these boats represent the average - and they are from what we have seen in the Caribbean, Pacific and here - then the 'average' cruising couple want, and are obtaining more Space, more Amenities and more Electricity.

In short, yes people can circumnavigate in a 35 foot boat; but most would prefer larger and are putting their money where their desires are

Or maybe its just more men wanting to keep their wives happy


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Old 08-07-2009, 17:30   #10
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100,000 canadian=85,000 us figure 20,000 to 30,000 min to outfit boat + 5,000 taxes,docs, etc you are looking at a 50,000 boat. maybe a westsail, allied, niagara think in terms of 70's quality boat and doing a lot of work yourself
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Old 08-07-2009, 17:33   #11
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Old 08-07-2009, 19:00   #12
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Quote:
Yes, people have sailed in 17 footers, but that was probably a solo sailor without a Nicolle on board.
It is all supposed to be fun. It's not a contest you can afford or desire to win and have more fun. You don't even have to go all the way. It is mostly about showing up. If you have fun I think the list ends there.

Picking the boat is the really easy part.
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Old 10-07-2009, 00:49   #13
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Yes, people have sailed in 17 footers, but that was probably a solo sailor without a Nicolle on board.
I have a "Nicolle" on board too Which is why I now find myself on a 41' boat instead of my old 31' I wouldn't want to trade either the boat nor the "Nicolle" though

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Old 10-07-2009, 02:36   #14
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I wouldn't want to trade ...the "Nicolle" though

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I don't want to trade... just a swap for a few weeks so these girls know how good they are getting it!!!!


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