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Old 21-11-2015, 10:32   #16
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Re: Help Out a Disabled, Landlubbing Old Paratrooper

A disabled old fart should not be screwing around in boats. Get a nice van and travel throughout North America. Cheaper, safer, and probably a lot more fun.
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Old 21-11-2015, 11:18   #17
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Re: Help Out a Disabled, Landlubbing Old Paratrooper

Paul, All the Way!

Thanks so much for all of the thoughtful replies --and no worries about the thread drift, sometimes on the Internet (as in life) the fight finds you and you just gotta say your piece. I get it

A couple specific questions and some clarifications:

First, the clarifications:

I'm going to buy a boat in the next few months. I'm going to buy one for the confluence of the Columbia, Snake, and Yakima rivers, because that's where I live I've been without a boat for two years now and the thought of spending another year land-locked is just too horrible to contemplate. My main decision revolves not around whether to buy a small boat for the river, but which type of small boat for the river to buy: power or sail.

The boat I buy is going to be temporary. I'll be moving over to the Seattle area during and after the transplant and that is where I intend to stay (sorry, Portland! I love you!). When I make that move I am going to buy my long-term boat, but I'm not going to make that investment until after the transplant. That's why I'm not overly-concerned about getting the 30'-40' live-aboard cruiser I want right now. I'll get that in a few years; this purchase is about enabling myself to spend massive amounts of time going up and down the Columbia and Snake until then.

The boat I buy isn't going to encounter anything like sea conditions here. The two most treacherous stretches of water she'll have to deal with are the Columbia River Gorge and the Wallula Gap, which are really only about very high winds, and even those are pretty easily avoided if you have the time to wait weather out --which I do. I get that river sailing is not open water sailing and that this isn't an ideal place for an aspiring sailor to learn, but this is where I am until 2018.

Also, for those worrying about my health, ability, or mental state: thanks! But --despite the title-- I'm pretty young still (42). I've been working these cruddy lungs of mine through all sorts of strenuous stuff for 20 years. I had emphysema in basic training and Airborne school (though I didn't know it at the time) and spent two tours with the 82nd Airborne and one with 2nd Infantry running mountains in Korea --so I don't really believe in putting limits on myself just because my body works differently. Most limits are mental, in my experience, and I don't have a lot of quit in me.

Ahora, las preguntas:

1) Specifically, why would this little Irwin be a horrible choice for LEARNING to sail? I get that the build quality isn't great (deck-to-hull joints/center-board/ports and hatches) and that resale value isn't going to get me right-side up economically, but I'm pretty fine with both of those things, frankly. This isn't an investment or a cruiser, it's an excuse for me to be on the river everyday learning how to operate a sailboat in mild conditions where mistakes aren't as dangerous. Is the Irwin not even cut out for such a lowly task as that?

2) What specific sailboating tasks do you think would be too much physically? Or, I guess a better question would be: what is the most physically demanding part of operating a small sailboat? As long as there aren't multiple physically demanding tasks to be performed in rapid succession (remember, I'm not doing the Vendee Globe, here) I have a pretty high confidence level in my ability to adapt and overcome. That said, I could write a story about all of my sailing experience on the inside of a matchbook cover with a Crayon, so I AM interested in everyone's advice and opinions.
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Old 21-11-2015, 11:22   #18
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Re: Help Out a Disabled, Landlubbing Old Paratrooper

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Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
A disabled old fart should not be screwing around in boats. Get a nice van and travel throughout North America. Cheaper, safer, and probably a lot more fun.
I don't take offense, but it might interest you to know there are many disabled farts, old and young, screwing around in boats. I could posit that immature imbeciles shouldn't be screwing around on Internet forums because it makes the rest of the species look bad, but I won't, because insulting strangers on an Internet forum for no reason makes one seem like a gigantic *******.
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Old 21-11-2015, 11:34   #19
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Re: Help Out a Disabled, Landlubbing Old Paratrooper

Now that everyone is finished with the labor market and business...
I think the primary concern of our OP is his health. The advice is sound: sell the motorboat, and get the transplant before buying anything else. Those Irwins are not going away, or is there a shortage of them. One in my marina (Warrenton)is for sale for a song too.
His second question- is it easy sailing along the Columbia from tricities to Portland. The answer is definitely no. Much easier to sail the Salish (Puget Sound). I sail both and find the wind often higher along the Columbia than the open ocean just outside the banks! Of course there is more places to hide, but you have to get there first.
Finally, if you insist on getting the boat, you should get it with the engine in it, and everything running without any leaks or problems. Believe me, you do not want to go down that road. After you get it, truck it down to Olympia, and learn to sail in sight of your doctor's office
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Old 21-11-2015, 11:48   #20
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Re: Help Out a Disabled, Landlubbing Old Paratrooper

$100 an hour? Remember when Detroit was 'Thriving'? Welcome to the real world.
Jobs move overseas to a more realistic wage. Too bad that Americans (and America) have borrowed themselves into prosperity. Ribbit has valid points. Terribly valid points.
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Old 21-11-2015, 11:52   #21
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Re: Help Out a Disabled, Landlubbing Old Paratrooper

105 per hour
find one that works.
then play. any cal 25s in area for sale??
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Old 21-11-2015, 12:22   #22
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Re: Help Out a Disabled, Landlubbing Old Paratrooper

Hey, thanks for taking the time to reply! Just thought I'd clear up a couple of things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
Now that everyone is finished with the labor market and business...
I think the primary concern of our OP is his health. The advice is sound: sell the motorboat, and get the transplant before buying anything else.
Actually, it isn't my health. I've known I needed a transplant since 2002. My condition is degenerative, so, ya kinda learn to live and function with what you have. My lungs are old, my body is still pretty young and fit and my health is otherwise fine. I wanted to know how physically strenuous operating a small sailboat is because I will be buying another boat in the next few months and I'm trying to decide if my physical limitations would cause enough of a safety issue to preclude me buying a sailboat. But, regardless, I will be buying SOME kind of boat because I don't like going insane and sitting here on the bank for a couple years waiting for new lungs to get back on the water would surely drive me insane.
Quote:
His second question- is it easy sailing along the Columbia from tricities to Portland. The answer is definitely no. Much easier to sail the Salish (Puget Sound). I sail both and find the wind often higher along the Columbia than the open ocean just outside the banks! Of course there is more places to hide, but you have to get there first.
Oh, I know it's not easy But honestly I only envision myself getting so far as Portland once or twice. I'm in the Tri-Cities so most of my sailing would happen just north of the Wallula Gap on the Columbia and Snake rivers. Wallula gets windy (25-30 kts pretty frequently) but nothing like Columbia Gorge (except on REALLY bad days). Basically I want to practice handling sails, managing locks and docks, and handling windy conditions in a safe-ish space and want to know if that is a realistic goal and if the Irwin would be acceptable even though not ideal.


*Edit*
(Combined two posts)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
105 per hour
find one that works.
then play. any cal 25s in area for sale??
Unfortunately not! There are literally three sailboats for sale in my area on CL and the Irwin is by FAR in the best condition. I may go have a walk around some of the marinas and see what has a sign in the window.
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Old 21-11-2015, 12:46   #23
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Re: Help Out a Disabled, Landlubbing Old Paratrooper

Engine out of the boat should be a deal breaker, they just say they took it out to replace valves because it wouldn't start. They don't say it runs now or why they haven't put it back in the boat. What do you figure the Bayliner is worth now compared to when it had a running engine installed ?
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Old 21-11-2015, 12:56   #24
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Re: Help Out a Disabled, Landlubbing Old Paratrooper

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Originally Posted by Calif.Ted View Post
Engine out of the boat should be a deal breaker, they just say they took it out to replace valves because it wouldn't start. They don't say it runs now or why they haven't put it back in the boat. What do you figure the Bayliner is worth now compared to when it had a running engine installed ?
I'd say I could get 3K out of the Bayliner as it sits right now, maybe 4.5 come Spring. It would go for 7.5-8.5K with the engine back in it. Repairing the Bayliner is do-able, but at that point I'd have 15k in an 8K boat that still isn't what I want, whereas even if I sell it for as low as 2K I'm still gonna have what it would cost to repair (6K) to put toward something else.
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Old 21-11-2015, 13:43   #25
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Re: Help Out a Disabled, Landlubbing Old Paratrooper

GoldFalcon
Welcome to the forum and thank you for your service. As an Army combat engineer, I had front loaders, bulldozers, rough terrain cranes and other equipment too large to be air droppable - so I bypassed jump school.
Your question and comments began a long thread but in my view the only response on point was regarding your health and recovery after the impending lung transplant.
My suggestion is to sell the Bayliner and the rebuilt engine now, before it gets much colder and take the money and charter a sailboat if you intend to practice on the Columbia/Snake river system. You could also take some boating classes offered by the US Power Squadron or US Coast Guard Auxiliary. Both will increase your knowledge base and introduce you to fellow boaters. I'm not a sailor but I think if you master river sailing and avoid being run down by barge traffic on that busy river it would be a fairly easy transition to Puget Sound waters.
If you find sailing is not for you, power boating is not a bad choice. Years ago I took my two young daughter from Pasco to Lewiston on our 24' I/O on a really enjoyable cruise.
Whatever you decide, I wish you all the best.
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Old 21-11-2015, 14:09   #26
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Re: Help Out a Disabled, Landlubbing Old Paratrooper

AIRBORNE! I agree with reed1v, forget it, there are to many nice boats that are running, and take the time to internet search for a good one, possibly priced near the same as the broken and still fairly close to home. PS I have CPOD and I have to have a a/c unit, as the Florida humidity, does me in without one. CAV Recon retired US Army
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Old 21-11-2015, 14:52   #27
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Re: Help Out a Disabled, Landlubbing Old Paratrooper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miniyot View Post
I had to double check to make sure this post wasn't 30 years old when I read this....
I am curious, Just what business can stay open if it charges only $20.00 per hour? If it is only charging 20 bucks per hour how little does it pay its mechanics? Any decent mechanic will not work for low wages. Even if you take the boat to his house and park it in the back yard for him to work on it on the side, if and when he has extra time on his hands....

Maybe you feel comfortable going to the labor pool and picking up a couple of vagrants with hangovers, to work on your boat. I'm sure you can get them for 10 bucks an hour!
There are scads of decent mechanics that will work for $25.00 an hour. All over. This would not be what a yard charges, but why do it in a yard. It is not brain surgery and should not take more than 15 -20 hours at most. See Craiglist and interview or get references. By the way, I agree with others, there are tons of sailboats that size that are available with-out the hassel of motor work. In your price range too.
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Old 21-11-2015, 15:04   #28
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Re: Help Out a Disabled, Landlubbing Old Paratrooper

The photo of the Yanmar motor of the yacht you're considering is awful so difficult to tell but I'd guess it's a YS variant (YSE, YSB or YSM 8 HP). If I'm wrong ignore the comments.

But assuming I'm correct then here's my 2 cents worth. The motor is well past it's use by date and it will never handle much more than popping in and out of a marina. It's at least 35 years old. Parts for them now are very expensive and difficult to obtain. Not just the motor components, but also things around the motor like exhaust couplings, engine mounts, starter etc. So for some years now people have kept them going with second hand parts.

They also usually needed regular head gasket replacements (every 2-3 years), if they're to be kept in good running order due to being side mounted and raw water cooled. Most owners never bothered doing that. Same can probably be said for engine/gearbox oil.

I had one in my yacht. After much expense and considerable labour over several years I finally bit the bullet and replaced it. I stupidly never thought when it first broke down that given it was 35-40 years old, it was, in reality never going to be reliable. So the money spent a rebuild and other repairs was really just money down the toilet. Different if I was an engineer and could do it myself, but I can't, or if I enjoyed fixing old motors, and I don't.

So buying that little yacht you'd just be jumping from the pan into the fire in my opinion.
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Old 21-11-2015, 15:12   #29
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Re: Help Out a Disabled, Landlubbing Old Paratrooper

Thanks for all of the thoughtful advice everyone! I think I'll just give the Irwin a pass. There's a '72 Catalina 27 about 30 more miles down river I may go take a look at. Her cockpit deck looks like a hobo cleaned it with a muddy brush and the price seems way too low ($2900), but she's tiller steered, 9 HP outboard with remote cockpit controls and everything supposedly works.
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Old 21-11-2015, 16:46   #30
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Re: Help Out a Disabled, Landlubbing Old Paratrooper

GoldFalcon, FWIW, I'm a 69y/o Australian Vietnam Veteran (in Nam..a combat medic).
Am also a licensed mechanic. Having been living aboard my 25' x 9' yacht for 6 years having returned from a 15 year India stint in '09. Have multiple physical injuries and a good dose of PTSD. FWIW, as an ex Merc Benz service manager etc, etc, etc...Brother, flog ALL of the stuff you have, don't spend a single cracker on it. GET OUT!!!!
Next boat....you want to sail so get sail. You're still a bloody spring chicken with a strong body but remember that 150' feet of 5/16 chain is a durned heavy thing...get a windlass!
Seems you want to actually 'sail' but I suspect you just luurve being afloat on anything. In your area sailing can be a v big PITA. With the wind is easy but trillions of tacks into it may tax your unbelievably painful (total) ribcage to the point where your old power boat starts to look pretty durn geurd. SO, SO .. make sure you new boat has seriously reliably motive power....esp fuel filters..can't have too many. And remember, the the quickest way to kill ANY diesel engine is TO NOT..have it loaded to a minimum 30% of governed speed. Diesels are designed to live at full revs, fully loaded. That means, wide open throttle (WOT) will never harm a diesel if in sound condition and great oil and fuel filters. You're going to be a bit of a invalid for a while so...1 not too much tacking/anchor hauling. 2. windlass with plenty battery power with generator (I'm Honda 2kv with 500 ah of deep cycle). 3. you ain't sailing the PNW so an Irwin or whatever keeps out the rain and the Briney should be OK. Good luck & cheers from Sydney OZ.
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