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Old 22-04-2016, 04:32   #76
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Re: Help me to understand Swingkeels

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Old 25-04-2016, 19:37   #77
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Re: Help me to understand Swingkeels

I'm partial to my boat which is a Santana 2023. I sail in the Barnegat bay and Toms River in NJ which is part of the ICW, but pretty restrictive since you can go 4 feet outside the channel and in some spots hit 3 ft of water and I sail coastal as well. It's water ballast and a swing centerboard so it only draws 2 ft with board and rudder up, and when down it draws just shy of 6 ft. Despite what people say, they're stable boats for not being fixed keel and they race them out to Catalina islands in CA. Before the wife and kids I would take off for a month at a time and has great interior space including a small galley and enclosed head for the ladies. Also has a pop top which I don't bother using.
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Old 26-07-2019, 07:20   #78
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Re: Help me to understand Swingkeels

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My feeling having done it, is a heavy displacement trailerable boat is the worst of both worlds more than the best of both worlds. You need a heavy duty tow vehicle, will have a boat that is difficult to launch off a trailer, but still small for extended cruising. In my mind, at that point it's better to go bigger, and forget trailer ability, which is what I eventually did.
Nautical62 I'm curious about your experience? I've been looking at a Chrysler 26, a Balboa 26, or a Seaward 29. All are trailerable swing keel boats with >4000 lbs of displacement. This seems like it would be better in heavier seas than a lighter trailerable (which I have now), and only slightly more difficult to trailer.

What do you think?
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Old 26-07-2019, 08:19   #79
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Re: Help me to understand Swingkeels

Hi Fritz


This thread is several years old. Nautical62 still posts but only every few months.


I have a Morgan 25 which is a stub keel plus centerboard boat. 5,000 pounds.


https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/morgan-2425


I've had it for two years. Despite having a hinged mast and being designed for trailer launching, I have found that it is roughly a half-day project to launch or retrieve. Everything takes time, deploying and stowing the hitch extension, stepping the mast, adjusting and locking the turnbuckles, attaching the boom, bending on the main, etc. I've done it singlehanded but it helps to have help.


The centerboard mechanism and the mast hinge have both required expensive repairs. As noted upthread the centerboard will tend to foul over time for boats kept in a slip or mooring and then will stick in the "up" position. I've had that happen and had to have the boat lifted off the trailer to be fussed with. Mine has the rod-and-packing sort of mechanism, and that has required maintenance too as the accumulation of corrosion and (probably) some swelling of the nylon rod over the years made it stick.


I have launched and retrieved many other boats over the years and this one is by far the most difficult and time consuming. Also it requires a 3/4 ton pickup to pull which poses its own considerable costs of ownership.


And ultimately I have not trailered this vessel to any other port. The main problem is that most boat ramps aren't deep enough. It takes 5' of water to float the boat onto the trailer and few ramps have that. So I am limited to a handful of places that have deeper ramps which generally means sail-oriented facilities. I am on the Mississippi River near Minneapolis. There are only three other bodies of water with deep ramps where I would plausibly want to trailer my boat -- Lake Superior, Lake Minnetonka, and Lake Vermilion. I could add Lake of the Woods but the only sail facilities are in Kenora, Ontario, and it would be expensive, time consuming, and difficult to coordinate such a trip.


The Morgan 25 has been a good learning experience but it is tender (the IOR-inspired design contributes to this too), too small to cruise, and too big to trailer.


Any cost savings we have realized by being able to trailer the boat home for maintenance and repairs has been more than made up for by the cost of centerboard and mast hinge maintenance.


If your needs include trailer launch, I would draw your attention to the Hunter 25. It is available in a water ballasted, centerboard version that is easier to launch and retrieve. Yet it has a larger cockpit and larger cabin than the 1970s and 1980s designs you are considering. It is also available in a fixed-keel version which is still trailerable but would require a deep ramp or slings etc for launching assistance.


Otherwise we are rethinking our insistence on a trailerable vessel and may end up with a larger vessel, whether a weekender in the 30' range or something around 37'-40'. Bridge clearance is limiting on the Mississippi so we can't go much larger than that.


Or we may ultimately move to a a true daysailer/weekender that is much easier to launch and retrieve, either instead of or in addition to a larger boat.
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Old 26-07-2019, 08:45   #80
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Re: Help me to understand Swingkeels

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Hi Fritz
If your needs include trailer launch, I would draw your attention to the Hunter 25. It is available in a water ballasted, centerboard version that is easier to launch and retrieve. Yet it has a larger cockpit and larger cabin than the 1970s and 1980s designs you are considering. It is also available in a fixed-keel version which is still trailerable but would require a deep ramp or slings etc for launching assistance.
Thanks! My needs do include trailer launch. I save a lot of money on mooring fees that way, and like to try different lakes. I live in Madison, so Lake Michigan, Winnebago, and Green Bay are all nearby.

I'd been under the impression that water ballasted boats are tender since the weight is up high rather than 6' down. Have you heard differently about this one?
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Old 26-07-2019, 11:40   #81
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Re: Help me to understand Swingkeels

Fritz


Well you can hold out for the Fox River locks to open again someday although I guess there are now some fixed bridges that only have 25' clearance.


On a more serious note a fact to consider in those waters is invasive species control. There are several invasives present in Lake Michigan that are not present in Lake Winnebago. Consider that it is impossible to clean and inspect the centerboard and centerboard case without removing the boat from the trailer with a forklift or hoist. I don't know what the inspection and compliance situation is there but it gets worse on this side of the Mississippi every year.



If you're thinking of launching the boat for a day or a weekend of sailing I would encourage you to look either at much smaller vessels such as the Montgomery 17 (a friend of mine has one), or water ballasted e.g. MacGregor or some of the Hunters as mentioned.


None of the centerboard boats are as stiff as boats with proper fixed keels. Whether the ballast is water or lead makes little difference.


You might want to take a look at launch/haulout facilities in Lake Winnebago as you may find that none of the ramps are deep enough for some of the boats you are considering.
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Old 31-07-2019, 14:54   #82
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Re: Help me to understand Swingkeels

This is a very fine thread with information about swing keel or centerboard. I am happy that I fell on it. I did not found yet as much pertinent information on the subject elsewhere, or so little:
https://stingysailor.com/2019/03/30/...revent-them-2/

I own a catalina 250 and bought it last year in august. Before, I had been sailing merely on dinghies or catamaran. I was able to do only three outings last year before the end of the season here in Montreal on the lake des Deux montagnes.

The boat is on the lake only since last week: the hull at to be grinded and painted with
a new antifouling paint and I had to install mooring in turbid water.

My problem is that my centerboard is stuck, though last summer it was functioning properly. I understand from this thread that servicing the retractable centerboard cables and pulleys would be better out of the water. But as the centerboard is stuck down putting it back on the trailer seems to not be a solution. The centerboard of the catalina 250 is pulled by hand from the cockpit there is no winch. We have tried four hands but it is really stucked.

I will be checking more thoroughly from the inside of the boat if I cannot get the thing to move a little.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.
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Old 31-07-2019, 15:49   #83
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Re: Help me to understand Swingkeels

You said the bottom was 'ground and painted'. Is it possible debris and/or paint got into the space between the centerboard and the trunk? Depending on the size of the gap, maybe a metal rod or wooden stick can be used to try to free it. Can you get to the hinge pin? If it is above water, you may need to take it out and push the centerboard out the bottom. (Obviously you would need to be in shallow water and/or tie a line around it first.)
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Old 31-07-2019, 18:41   #84
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Re: Help me to understand Swingkeels

Good suggestion for the stick. It gives me additional ideas.


But for the hinge pin, no luck, it is located underwater.


I will investigate your hypothesis this friday.


The centerboard is somewhat lested. Not easy moved it from under water snorkeling. I wonder if there could be a way for me to retract the centerboard with strap or otherwise to get the cable at least somewhat looser.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:35   #85
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Re: Help me to understand Swingkeels

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On a more serious note a fact to consider in those waters is invasive species control. There are several invasives present in Lake Michigan that are not present in Lake Winnebago.

If you're thinking of launching the boat for a day or a weekend of sailing I would encourage you to look either at much smaller vessels such as the Montgomery 17 (a friend of mine has one), or water ballasted e.g. MacGregor or some of the Hunters as mentioned.

You might want to take a look at launch/haulout facilities in Lake Winnebago as you may find that none of the ramps are deep enough for some of the boats you are considering.
Hi Jammer, I typically keep my boat on the hard for at least three weeks between outings and I don't have any water ballast, so I'm skeptical that invasives could survive that long out of water.

Also, I currently have a Mac25 and am able to launch it on both ramps I've tried into Lake Winnebago with lots of extra ramp available. The boats I'm looking at (not really looking at the 29 closely) are just 1' longer.

Thanks for the concern!
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:05   #86
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pirate Re: Help me to understand Swingkeels

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Good suggestion for the stick. It gives me additional ideas.


But for the hinge pin, no luck, it is located underwater.


I will investigate your hypothesis this friday.


The centerboard is somewhat lested. Not easy moved it from under water snorkeling. I wonder if there could be a way for me to retract the centerboard with strap or otherwise to get the cable at least somewhat looser.
Well you could find a sand bar and drive into it gently to try and push it back to free it.. best at slack water to keep the pressure positive.
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Old 01-08-2019, 09:52   #87
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Re: Help me to understand Swingkeels

If you have to you could haul out on a travel lift and free it up while in the slings. My Macgregor 25 has quit a bit of clearance in the center board trunk. Maybe you have a stick or rock stuck in there. Dive gear and a good light.
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Old 02-08-2019, 05:42   #88
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Re: Help me to understand Swingkeels

The problem is solved: a pulley of the centerboard cable system was not installed properly. Working with the cables and pulleys under the deck, the centerboard would move freely. From underwater the centerboard was not completely down. The problem was at the first pulley in the cockpit. This plastic pulley was worn out and I had one done exactly the same dimensions but in aluminium, after without results searching a replacement part this winter. The cable has to pass under the pulley and not over. If not the cable will get stucked.

Many thanks for your time and suggestions.
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Old 05-09-2023, 10:41   #89
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I have a MacGregor 25 that is kept in a salt water slip. I never operate the swing keel wench as it is always in the down position.
Am I really doing the wrong thing? The boatyard manager says that it is okay, but I’m starting to get concerned.
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Old 05-09-2023, 12:14   #90
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Re: Help me to understand Swingkeels

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I have a MacGregor 25 that is kept in a salt water slip. I never operate the swing keel wench as it is always in the down position.
Am I really doing the wrong thing? The boatyard manager says that it is okay, but I’m starting to get concerned.
Do you have any specific concerns about leaving it down?

With our Catalina 25 swing keel, I had heard a general concern about the rocking of the boat slowly wearing the keel around the pin if the keel were left down all the time. Catalina Direct sells kits with spacers to help prevent that side-to-side wear motion, but it was never an issue for my boat.

I do recommend making sure your lifting gear is in working order, even if you don't normally use it, just in case you need to.
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