Help Me Decide on a Cruising Boat

[largodelight]

Folks, I NEED to buy the boat I have long dreamt about. I am reaching out to see if I can get some sound advice before I lay down the deposit with the broker.

I have tons of experience with boating, usually as a mate on large offshore sport fishing charters, and often on my own power boats. I've owned a couple of smaller sailboats, the last was a 27' Cal a few years back but as time and family dictated I gave up sailing. I have crewed on two 1000+ mile sailing trips from VA to the Caribbean so I have some ocean time under sail. I am not looking for suggestions on how to cruise, just with the boat selection.

I had picked an Island Packet '38 as a good fit but the economy killed that idea. After looking at all available IP 38's on the east coast, bad times hit and my "boat fund" was cut in half. I decided to wait another year, so here I am almost two years later, with snow at my feet and my head hung low when it should be sand between my toes looking at gin colored water.

My budget to buy the boat is about $60k. Keep in mind, this amount is with minimal refit (say another $10k for extras). The dilemma is buy something needing a refit or go with something cruise ready? I can spend more but the idea is to go cruising and not worry about a loan.

As far as size and build, I want a boat that can accommodate three, at least two private cabins and also can accommodate the infrequent guest. Of all the boats I have looked at, 35 seems to be the smallest we would be comfortable on. I really would like a stiff heavily built boat under foot, something you would not worry about in heavy seas or air.

I am pretty realistic about getting in over my head on a project boat yet I am drawn to a good deal. So here again is my dilemma; I want a sturdy sailboat with two cabins that is pretty self-sufficient (no dock condo, I will be staying on the hook) in a price range up to $60K.

Being that IP's are too expensive, I have selected a few others but I am open to any suggestions.

My first choice is a CSY 44 WO that is being sold "as is" as a distressed sale. From what I can tell, it will need new chain plates, engine work or rebuild, a few new electronics and a long list of small items but at $40k the end result seems worth it. The construction of CSY’s seems so solid it would be worth investing $20k-$30k and the time. The end result would be newer systems and the knowledge of how it was installed. Please hit me with a beer bottle at this point if needed.

The second and third choices are a 38' Krogen and a 36' Bayfield both in the $70K range but need few repairs or upgrades.

Long and short of it, what do you think of refitting a CSY on my budget? Or go sailing now with the smaller Krogen or Bayfield?

[sailorboy1]

I think that CSY is going to cost you a lot more than your estimate. Get the smaller boat. I would add boats like the Tayana 37 to your choices.

[eyschulman]

Make low ball offers on the krogan and bayfeild- is the krogan cb or keel? I believe they made both.

[s/v Beth]

After refitting a "already to cruise boat" I would say the CSY is going to cost you 40-50k and a bunch of time to rebuild. Keep looking, but don't give up hope.

[largodelight]

Thanks for the comments. This is what I was really hoping to hear. I like the idea of the rock solid massive CSY but my hesitation to go forward is the fear that I won't get it up to cruising standard. Then I will end up have an excuse not to leave next fall.

Before I dismiss the CSY, I figured on a refit cost based on a few things. The chain plate replacement cost of $3,500 and my own labor (this number came from a couple of CSY owner sites noting the cost and how to). The engine runs but I can't tell if it is solid (under 4k hours) on a 30+ year old Perkins 4-236. Worst case is to replace it, then I am guessing about $20K all in or pay for a rebuild. Electronics missing are a up to date GPS chart plotter.
Is it a good deal at $38K purchase price and then roll the dice? I am not sold on it but just thought I would check in again.

I have looked at Tyana's but they are narrow and dark down below. Not so good for livability for the family. We are headed for warm air so most of our time will be in the cockpit and Tyana's are kind of small.

Any other suggestions are welcome!!!! Any comments on a Krogen or Bayfield?

[largodelight]

To answer the earlier question about Krogens; there are two nice looking ones on yachtworld.com. One belongs to Mr Krogen, a fixed keel and the other is a CB in south FL. The FL boat has a newer engine, a VW Pathfinder, reveiws are not so good on Pathfinders. I was leaning toward the fixed keel, fewer parts.

[SkiprJohn]

Perkins 4-236 are a rock solid good performer. If it runs good now I wouldn't be surprised if it would last many more years with good care.
I don't know much about any of the boats you are asking about.
regards,

[Hampus]

Have a look at the Taiwanese built William Garden ketches. They have a bad reputation, hence they are cheap, but if you know what to look for you can avoid the worst pitfalls and make a real bargain. The reputation is somewhat deserved, but nowhere near to the extent it's usually made out to be. Search for Formosa 41, CT 41, Sea Tiger or Island Trader 41, Transworld 41 for the CC versions.

/Hampus

[Curmudgeon]

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1989.../United-States

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1987.../United-States

[largodelight]

Curmudgeon and Hampus thanks for the suggestions.

I don't want to add to my list of concerns so I eliminated any older boats with teak decks (it seems all for sale are leaking). Also, steel hulled boats because I just don't know enough about what to watch out for. I wish I had a mentor on these!

Update, Krogen's are out for now, seems that they have cored hulls and most have leakage into the coring via thru hulls among other problems. Two of them I spoke with the brokers about, one has bad tanks so the sole needs to be removed and new tanks installed. The other has similar issues. They say cruise ready or great shape, guess not.

Does anyone have an RV for sale?

Formosa?

[forsailbyowner]

Perkins are very rebuildable and as stated, rock solid. $3500 seems way expensive for chainplates. I've made my own for under $500. That included 316 stock a harbor freight drill press, 4" grinder, cobalt drill bits cut off blades and polishing kit. The Morgan OI may be worth looking at. Like a poor mans IP. Same Keel design protected rudder and prop. Roomy but not exactly a fast boat.

[Hampus]

Originally Posted by largodelight

Formosa?

Yes, but they are old and with teak dekcks. Evil people call them leaky teakys
They would be worth a look though. A lot of them have had the teak removed and replaced with GRP.

Link to owners group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LeakyTeakyYachtClub/
See, even the club is called Leaky Teaky Yacht Club

Here's one that seems to have undergone such a surgery. http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1973.../United-States

/Hampus

[Curmudgeon]

Well, if you want a "rock solid" boat without teak decks that is at least 35 ft for not more than 60K, you will have to make compromises. One suggestion would be an Allied Princess or Mistress. I would also check out the Southern Cross 35, but they are probably be out of your price range unless they need alot of work.

[slomotion]

It's pretty obvious that you really want a CSY 44. The 40k one may indeed be a good deal, but I agree with others: most likely it needs far more work than you realize and you will not be cruising on her any time soon.

With the vintage you are considering, it's all about condition and any part of a 30 year old boat which is still 30 years old is suspect. Having said that, I know of a couple of nice Whitby 42s recently sold in the 70k range - they might compare favorably with the CSY that you really want. But it's still all about condition.

[Pubsnub]

I would second the Allied Princess or Mistress reccomendation. They are very ruggedly built and are pretty decent performers for a cruiser. The interiors will be very dated however. The later Princess models were finished out much better. I just bought 1980 Princess II cutter, but most Allieds were built as ketches.