help in choosing a cruiser

[claynnc]

Would appreciate any help and expertise in identifying a cruiser for my future plans; primarily extended near shore cruises on east coast, florida, and gulf coast with possible winters in the caribbean. requirements are must be stable and strong, but an above average performer, good in light wind. will be primarily single handed. price tag under $75,000. classical styling. search is currently limited to 20 year old used classics in the 28-37 foot range, Bristol Channel Cutter, Cape Dory, Dickerson, Ericson, Morris, Pearson, and Pacific Seacraft. No offense to more modern design production boats, but most are deficient sailors or questionably constructed and furbished. Dislikes about designs in general are two-fold, encapsulated keels and cored fiberglass construction instead of solid glass. is there anything about the yachts i am looking at that i should be concerned about? are there any other good classically designed ones that are well built and have good performance, have bolt on lead keels, better fiberglass construction without cored material, and within my price range? Can anyone help me narrow my search? thanks for any help. fair winds to all.

[SG]

How many crew? Does the crew like sailing?
How important is performance? Do you and crew like changing sails? Do you us a cruising spinaker or would you?

Will you be living on the boat for an extended period -- or just during your cruises? How long are your cruises?

[claynnc]

thanks for reply SG. 1-2 crew. yes, enjoy sailing. changing sails not a problem. would probably like a cutter rig for the options offshore. spinnaker too. weekend trips to extended voyages of up to 3 months. needs to be livaboard friendly, but not a condominium.....trying to find something which is strong and safe in open waters but not such a slug with heavy displacement and poor sailing performance.

[BC Mike]

Your budget is likely enough to include a Morris of around 34 feet.
There is a similar model built in England as the Francis I think.
All being Chuck Paine designs. That would be my preference.
I do not like the long keel boats.
There are some nice Ericsons as well starting with the 29. Others however will be more familiar with all these boats than me.
I just like the looks and concept of the Paine designed boats because they are similar to my Tanzer 8.5
All boats tho will have a compromise somewhere.
Michael

[SG]

I think that a Sabre 36 is a good compromise. It's got an easily handled sail plan with a relatively smaller foresail -- so you don't necessarily have to change down as much as the less "modern" designs. It's got an open interior with a lot of ventilaation. And the Mid-80's versions are very well made. They move well and have a centerboard which will allow you to get into a lot a anchorages in the Southeast, Carribean or Gulf Coast.

I think that some the "older designs" (probably with vintages before 1980 include the Tartan 37's, Bristol '34's and '38's, and Ericson '38's. You might consider a Pearson 10M or 365 for that matter.

I would avoid one of the "cruising" boats that people view as more offshore capable -- I think that you'll just go a lot slower, have less ventilation, etc. Plus there are all those "cute" things on the deck that make getting around tougher.

One feature that you should pay attention to is the storage in the cockpit lockers. I think that you'll find that storage is like a "gas that expands to the limits of the container" -- you really can not have too much if you're going cruising for some period.

[claynnc]

thanks BC MIKE and SG...great feedback...confirms my thinking.....stay away from the tanks...expand my search.....will look at all of these.

[Stede]

claynnc,

Hands down, if I had $75K to purchase a cruising boat for the sailing venue you mentioned, it would be a Wauquiez Pretorian 35. With a PHRF of 132, the boat has a good turn of speed and would be good in some of the "light air" locals of the Carribean that you mentioned. She has the tankage and strength to go even further if you desire.Her displacement / sail area is well within the handling demands placed on a short handed crew.

I tell you what, how about lending me the $75K and I'll buy one and prove it to you?

[claynnc]

thanks stede, i know a little about
Wauquiez....great reputation......but never thought about as a serious cruiser......sailing characteristics are well known....may have more heel than is desirable for crusing......deep draft- 6 feet plus......but other than that...makes good sense.....tell me your thoughts on all that teak on the decks.....volvo engine (have heard some negative comments)......since i will not have builder support, is that going to be a big problem?.....also, do you know if the hull is solid glass? or is there coring material other than resin? ..would love to hear more.....thanks, clay.......anyone else, what are the negatives about the Wauquiez Pretorien 35?

[Stede]

Clay,

Some of the Pretorians don't have teak decks.Personally, I would rather not have teak decks.IMO, they're just another potential area for leaks. In regards to the Volvo engine, I can't give you any insight into their reliability other than based on the performance of the small 8hp Volvo in my 26 footer. It runs like a top. I do annual maintenance on it, and have never had any major problems in the 11 years that I've owned the boat. I wouldn't think having a Volvo on board would be a problem in regard to obtaining parts in any part of the world, but maybe someone more knowledgable on the subject can contribute some additional information.

The Pretorian has a solid fiberglass hull with a balsam cored deck. She is considered a blue-water capable cruiser. While building criteria for my next boat, I set 6 ft. as maximum draft. Of the places I've sailed,: Carribean, Bahamas, Abacos, Florida Keys, Dry Tortugas,NC Outer Banks,Charleston, Annapolis,Greek Cyclades, etc., a six foot draft is an exceptable limit.

I've attached a link to a Pretorian listed on Yachtworld for you to check out.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=1441&url=

[capt lar]

I may be wrong here, but I think Ted Hood was involved with Wauquiez at this time and was also building a few similar boats - the Bristol 35.5 as well as the Little Harbor series. No teak decks, US components and many with the keel/centerboard option desired by NE sailors. FWIW

Larry

[SailWiz]

Claynnc, I would be remiss if i didn't mention the Pearson 365 as a possible choice. It's not the fastest but everything feels right about the boat. Storage room is incrdible, the ketch rig gives you options and it feels very safe. Everything on the boat is in the right place for cruising. The only drawback I have found on mine is the weakness of the bow sprit. 6 months before I purchased her it had to be replaced due to stressed caused by too much load on the anchor. I plan to reinforce it and avoid the problem in the future. Prices right now range from the high $30's to the high $50's. A good value for the price. Good luck,

Wiz

[leeway]

Keeping in mind the compromises one always has to make, and your price range, have you considered any of the following? (Also given your like of classic styling)

Alberg 37 (encapsulated keel, I think? maybe a little too old and heavy?)

Hughes 38 (a foot longer than you specify)

Hinckley 38 (same hull, better builder, more $)

These boats all rate slower (PHRF) than some other designs mentioned here, but I wonder sometimes how much those ratings translate into true passage speed, not to mention comfort.

Retirement isn't so far away ... hope to find out then.

Also, is there anything from Cheoy Lee that fits your need?

Rob

[Paul Bradbury]

Hi all

Am very new to this site. I do not see too many folks here who would consider a Beneteau or any of the other production vessels as an appropriate choice for cruising. I own a 36' Beneteau and wonder myself if it would be up to the task. The Beneteau Owners Site were none too please with my question (of course).

Comments

[CSY Man]

I would consider a CSY.

They are indeed in yer age and price-range.

I have owned a CSY 33 for the last 7 years and have done about 7,000 miles on her, including 16 Bahamas trips and numerous Florida sails.

Strong and sturdy. Superior ventilation. Superior storage. Superior tankage. Very comfortable.

Not fast in a light wind....(That is what diesel engines are for)

The CSY.s come in severeal flavors:

The 33..(Really 36 feet overall) Cutter or sloop, deep or shallow draft. Prices from about $25,000 for a beaten up one to $55,000 for a premium version. Most go for $35,000 and up.

The 37. "Biggest" 37. around..Several lay-outs, deep or shallow keel. Severeal for sale...From high 20s to low 60s.

The various 44s: The Walk-Over, the Walk-Through, the Pilot Hours, the Fishing boat, The Antiuga, etc, etc. Prices vary with maintenance and equipment..Low 60s for a wreck to 200K for a top of the line version...Most go for $90 to $120K.

All these boats are about the same age, from 1977 to 1980 or so.
Many of them were charted boats, ridden hard and put away wet.

Good survey required.

I enjoy mine and will probably keep her forever...Unless my numbers come up on the next Lotto drawing...Then an Amel 54, or an Oyster 55 may be on the menu.

In the meantime, go CSY and enjoy.....

[capt lar]

Paul - Ah, the dreaded Beneteau question ! There are Beneteau owners on this site. One is off in the Bahamas for the winter, which answers your question, but I will take a shot at the issue.

Beneteau are certainly capable of cruising. They are not made for heavy offshore work. Most boats aren't ! There is also a feeling among many that Beneteau are built with some methods and materials that suggest they may not hold value as well as older boats. By that I mean they may not make it to their 30th birthday. I do think the ergonomics is better on newer designs, including Beneteau.

The older boats were often built better, but since they are much older, they require substantial upgrading and probably higher maintenance (brightwork and detailing not found on most newer production boats). The names mentioned above are all okay as a starting point, but it always comes down to a specific boat and its survey. All boats have, IMO, weaknesses in design and construction.... at least all boats that any of us could afford.

To me it is yet another trade off. If I bought a newer B, it would cost more initially (foot for foot) and depreciate faster than a well built boat from the 80's. I could probably own it for 5 years, take the depreciation hit when selling and not get into any major projects such as blisters, standing rigging, all new electronics and the like. For many, this is a reasonable deal.

This site has a lot of people who know how to take apart and rebuild. Many actually enjoy it. Most sailors probably lack either the time or talent, so this Forum is kind of a special group (not me - but many others that share their knowledge). I also think there are more here who really voyage, or want to voyage. Beneteau would not really meet their needs. That is not the typical sailor.

This is just my view, but I still think it is "better" to buy a boat from the 80's that has seen top quality care. I am paying a yard to maintain a 1984 Bristol 31.1.( I just don't have the time.) The only instruction I gave the foreman was to "do it right". I am pleased (well, maybe not pleased) with the bills that are now rolling in as we complete the annual work plus some upgrades. I still think it is substantially less than the annual depreciation on a newer boat. Additionally, I get to enjoy all that wood, which is important to me and especially the helmhog I sail with.

You need to know your own boat, regardless of the builder. Test her capabilities, and yours. Understand what she can and cannot do without exceeding design capability. How you own and maintain your boat will determine how well she holds up when things get hairy. You can certainly upgrade rigging, fasteners and all that good stuff that owners of older boats do all the time.

I plan to have my boat surveyed again this spring with a new surveyor, just to confirm what the original surveyor found, and what I have discovered during our first season. Best $600 you can spend on a boat IMO. A good surveyor would be a good person to ask - not can she cruise - but - what should I do to improve my boats cruising capabilities ?

Larry