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Old 01-03-2016, 08:38   #16
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Re: Help a Newb with first boat

If your budget is up to $20K there are plenty of names to chose from, all more or less compatible. I'd look for late 80s Catalinas 25-27, O'days 25-28, Pearson 25-28, Beneteau 25-28, Dufour 25-28. Even if the asking price is well above your budget don't be afraid to knock it down significantly. Most boats linger on for months and even years and the owners will be much more amenable to your haggling if you bring that bank check or a wad of cash with you for the amount of your offer.

One more observation. Most boat insurance companies are not happy insuring 30+ year old boats, other than for just liability/spill part. This is one of the reasons many owners sell their boat as it approaches its uninsurable (or more expensively insurable) age. Not a big deal if you initially are paying very little for it but the price of the boat may be affected by the fact of it's going over the 30 year cliff. In that regard your purchasing power may be stronger if you don't mind a boat few years older than anticipated as the prices stabilize more or less once the boat is over 30 years old (assuming decent maintenance and upkeep, etc). Thus if you buy a 25-27 year old boat and try to sell her 2-3 years later you will take a bigger hit on the price than if you buy already discounted 30-32 year old boat and sell her 2-3 years later.

But as people commented earlier - condition is the key. A 35 year old boat meticulously kept is a much better deal even if 30-50% more expensive, than a 15-20 year old boat kept in so-so condition.
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Old 01-03-2016, 09:10   #17
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Re: Help a Newb with first boat

Do not succumb to the crowd claiming there are always repairs on a boat. There is maintenence but having been at this a while and having too many boats to count I would say that if you buy the right boat you can sail without much worry and learn to maintain it as you go. Lots and lots of nice little learner boats out there for great prices and my advice is to go see many before committing. You'll know what you like when you see it and you should immediately have a sense of the work required.
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Old 01-03-2016, 09:19   #18
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Re: Help a Newb with first boat

Many marinas have boats that have been abandoned for various reasons up for auction or otherwise available which you may be able to pick one up for a song. Walking around looking at boats, reading and finding out about all the different types etc. i.e. educating yourself is a good start as is joining in on this forum with the wealth of information contained.
Good luck!
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Old 01-03-2016, 09:19   #19
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Re: Help a Newb with first boat

@$5,000 I'd jump on it with both feet. In fact jump all over it and listen carefully for voids in the deck. If that Univeral diesel ticks over and doesn't smoke much after she comes up to temp you're halfway to having a lot of fun. Have your marine engineer buddy really check out the gearbox. I personally don't see signs of water intrusion to the cabin sole. Look closely for signs of corrosion around the base of the mast. Look for an owner's association website for this boat. There you will likely find discussions of the common issues.

Slap on two coats of Petit Easypoxy to the decks, using a good quality brush and she'll look as good as new.

Add a little cabin heater of your chose and you'll be out having a ball come spring.
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Old 01-03-2016, 09:31   #20
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Re: Help a Newb with first boat

Very attractive 1969 Bristol 32 on Yachtworld asking $14,900 in Florida though has an inboard Atomic 4 (gas). Very good boat would likely be sold quickly.
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Old 01-03-2016, 09:56   #21
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Re: Help a Newb with first boat

I have a good boat review of the Columbia 9.6 I can email you if you are interested.
Send me pm with your email.
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Old 01-03-2016, 09:58   #22
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Re: Help a Newb with first boat

I'm going to go out on a limb, and actually answer the OPs question.

I suggest a C&C27 from the mid 70's. These were very well made canadian boats that are selling very cheap these days due to their age. Most had a reliable atomic 4, but some had great yanmars as well. The C&C27 is a great sailing boat, points high, goes fast, and still has a spacious interior with lots of teak. With over 1000 built, you should have no trouble finding one.

If you find one with a few soft spots in the deck, it will be even cheaper, but no less fun to sail...just be sure the soft spots are not near the mast. Actually, most of these boats are old enough that the decks have already been redone. Remember, the ads show "asking" price. Most will sell for much less.

C & C 27 | sailboats | Hamilton | Kijiji

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Old 01-03-2016, 10:38   #23
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Re: Help a Newb with first boat

Look into Catalina's smaller (22') boats. You can find a used one for not too much. Definitely one of your better bets for "cheap" other than getting a Hobie Cat. "Cheap" won't necessarily exist, but stick to the 20' area and keep your options open and you can maybe find a 20' in relatively good shape for less than $8K.

As for not having time for constant repairs... go ahead and toss that requirement out the window or find a new hobby

Every boat will have an ongoing, often extensive, list of modifications or fixes you need to make - sailboats doubly so. BUT, if sailing is something you're really serious about, you'll come to love this process in a weird way. Although you'll still want to bang your head against a wall.
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Old 01-03-2016, 11:22   #24
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Re: Help a Newb with first boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by sagablu View Post
Thank you, this is helpful. Can you tell me what you are seeing that tells you the sole has had water intrusion? This is so I learn what to look for. Why is the deck prepped for paint an issue. Seems to me that is was something that is about to be completed but was not. Am I missing something?

$15,000+ is not an option for now. I cannot justify that for a starter boat. Second time around, no problem. This is my training wheels boat, but I to be useful I do need a certain level of trim. Maybe I am overreaching, we shall see.
The extremely dark boards on the sole are a classic example of water damage. It could have happened 20 years ago or last year no way to tell from pictures. But when combined with other water damaged wood (again dark staining) it indicates a boat that has real water intrusion problems.

The core replacement they talk about indicates water intrusion into the core of the boat. Basically the layer of wood sandwiched between two layers (top and bottom) of the deck. When water gets to this wood it rots, and the only way to fix it is to open up the fiberglass around the damage, replace the core, and then patch the repair.

The fact the entire deck has been reprimed indicates the scale of the bad core. Someone spent a lot of time or money repairing a damaged spot this large and then stopped just before the last, and easiest part of the job. To me this indicates a few possibilities. 1) they realized the repair job was defective and walked away. 2) the owner died, 3) more water damaged was found requiring starting the process over again. 4) they ran out of money

Finally the add indicates some more core work needs to be done. This is expensive either in your time, or boat yard cash. It is a structural element of the boat, and sailing without finishing the job is like driving with a bent axle... Sure you might get where you are going, or the entire thing could go pear shaped on the way to get a gallon of milk. The only responsible option is to fix it.

Either way there is a substantial problem there and I wouldn't want to get saddled with it.

If you look at the 4th from last picture you can also see water damaged wood along the outer perimeter of the headliner and wooden cabinetry. My guess is that this is an indicator of the area that caused the core to rot. So roughly from the bulkhead in front of the mast all the way back to the chainplates.

It is very difficult to diagnose these things from pictures, particularly pictures taken with an eye to selling the boat not documenting damage. But the areas involved are large enough and critical enough I would pass. It could be that a fresh coat of paint is all it would take to return her to good condition, but a half finished repair job raises my hackles. Particularly with a new boater who doesn't know what he is getting into.

By comparison take a look at https://longisland.craigslist.org/boa/5470383340.html with an asking price of $14,500. Just go take a look at them both and report what you think. I am betting the one you posted smells a little musty has somewhat rotten lines, and feels a little dingy. While the second looks like a very well maintained example of an older boat in need of a good home.

On the second I would probably offer $10k and offer to go to act of sale immediatly (after inspection and test sail). Older used boats can sit for months on the market, a cash buyer ready to close today is worth a lot to most sellers. These boats seem to list in good updated condition at around 15k, with a bottom of $7k for poor condition ones. The one I listed I would place in the good to very good condition, with some nice perks (sailing dinghy, new inboard diesel, rebuilt chainplates, etc).

Yes it is more, but one is turn key the other not so much.
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:00   #25
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Re: Help a Newb with first boat

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The extremely dark boards on the sole are a classic example of water damage. It could have happened 20 years ago or last year no way to tell from pictures. But when combined with other water damaged wood (again dark staining) it indicates a boat that has real water intrusion problems.



The core replacement they talk about indicates water intrusion into the core of the boat. Basically the layer of wood sandwiched between two layers (top and bottom) of the deck. When water gets to this wood it rots, and the only way to fix it is to open up the fiberglass around the damage, replace the core, and then patch the repair.



The fact the entire deck has been reprimed indicates the scale of the bad core. Someone spent a lot of time or money repairing a damaged spot this large and then stopped just before the last, and easiest part of the job. To me this indicates a few possibilities. 1) they realized the repair job was defective and walked away. 2) the owner died, 3) more water damaged was found requiring starting the process over again. 4) they ran out of money



Finally the add indicates some more core work needs to be done. This is expensive either in your time, or boat yard cash. It is a structural element of the boat, and sailing without finishing the job is like driving with a bent axle... Sure you might get where you are going, or the entire thing could go pear shaped on the way to get a gallon of milk. The only responsible option is to fix it.



Either way there is a substantial problem there and I wouldn't want to get saddled with it.



If you look at the 4th from last picture you can also see water damaged wood along the outer perimeter of the headliner and wooden cabinetry. My guess is that this is an indicator of the area that caused the core to rot. So roughly from the bulkhead in front of the mast all the way back to the chainplates.



It is very difficult to diagnose these things from pictures, particularly pictures taken with an eye to selling the boat not documenting damage. But the areas involved are large enough and critical enough I would pass. It could be that a fresh coat of paint is all it would take to return her to good condition, but a half finished repair job raises my hackles. Particularly with a new boater who doesn't know what he is getting into.



By comparison take a look at https://longisland.craigslist.org/boa/5470383340.html with an asking price of $14,500. Just go take a look at them both and report what you think. I am betting the one you posted smells a little musty has somewhat rotten lines, and feels a little dingy. While the second looks like a very well maintained example of an older boat in need of a good home.



On the second I would probably offer $10k and offer to go to act of sale immediatly (after inspection and test sail). Older used boats can sit for months on the market, a cash buyer ready to close today is worth a lot to most sellers. These boats seem to list in good updated condition at around 15k, with a bottom of $7k for poor condition ones. The one I listed I would place in the good to very good condition, with some nice perks (sailing dinghy, new inboard diesel, rebuilt chainplates, etc).



Yes it is more, but one is turn key the other not so much.

This is very good sense.


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Old 01-03-2016, 12:26   #26
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Re: Help a Newb with first boat

Greg's advice is very good. If you look at even just a few boats, rather than just one, you'll start seeing patterns, basically: how well was the boat cared for.

Here are a ton of tips:

Boat Inspection Trip Tips | SailboatOwners.com Forums
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:34   #27
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Re: Help a Newb with first boat

If you are willing to look at 22', the classic Tanzer 22 always was, and still is, a great boat. Excellent performance, well built, rugged, fast and forgiving. They sell here from $1000-$3000, well within your price range, and have a strong owners association. You can't go wrong with a T22.

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/city...ationFlag=true

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/miss...ationFlag=true

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/kawa...ationFlag=true

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/wind...ationFlag=true
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Old 01-03-2016, 13:24   #28
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Re: Help a Newb with first boat

Hi All,
I am a relative newbie my self, started sailing about 4 years ago. I started with a Hobie 14, then a Venture 21, currently a Hobie 16 and a Catalina 27.
I personally would recommend the Catalina 27. It is a solid boat, safe, easy to sail, lots of parts and information, and you can pick them up cheep. I traded the Venture and $3000 for mine. They do require work. I have rewired mine and pulled the engine to clean it, the inside was plugged with scale.
Good Luck, if you are not afraid of the work older boats are great.
Earl
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Old 01-03-2016, 13:35   #29
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Re: Help a Newb with first boat

It's hard to beat a Catalina or even the C & C 27.

BUT, why own if it's only for two years?

If there is a sailing club that has boats that you can use with your membership that would be the way to go.

There will be other club members that you will meet and sail with and they probably offer lessons and seminars.

Why take on the uncertainties of old boat ownership?
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Old 01-03-2016, 14:01   #30
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Re: Help a Newb with first boat

Absolutely, sailing with a club is a great way to start, but I have learned a lot about the boats by working on them. I also have foot disease and am looking at the next boat before I get one home. I am also unusual in that I sell boats for more than I buy them for.
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