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Old 28-12-2011, 12:11   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames

This has been RECOMMENDED to me. I have not tried it.

You take a five gallon bucket, and drill holes at zero and 180 just below the reinforced lip -- but with room for a large washer to help support the strain. then you tie a line through the two holes. Make it long enough to hang over the side of the bucket.

You can still use it as a bucket, but can put it behind you with a line tied to the rope in a storm.

I really don't know how well it would work and I certainly would want to test it before counting on it, but I am considering trying it. You should be able to do a series as well.
.
It would have to be an awfully small boat for a 5 gallon bucket to make any difference. At the same time, a large boat in storm conditions is going to blow that bucket apart in fairly quick order. Think about it: most of us won't be deploying drogues until we're hitting 2X hull speed surfing down the swells.

You might want to consider the possibility that the person making this recommendation may not be a great source of advice on storm tactics.
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Old 28-12-2011, 12:30   #32
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Re: Heaving To With a Fin Keel...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
The Scheel is an early '60s precursor to bulb keels. Consider it an almost-but-not-quite bulb keel. The missing link.
I think a Scheel keel is actually better than a regular bulb keel, at least, hydrodynamically. Like with a wing keel -- you get a big boost from the "end plate effect".

AFAIK both of these designs are superior to regular fin or bulb keels except only for one thing -- it is a big, big mess if you run aground with one. A wing keel, especially, will act just like an anchor when it hits the mud, and then you are really royally screwed. AFAIK that's the only reason why they are not universally used.

The "high perf bulb" (so-called by the designer) on my boat is significantly flattened, which I guess is an attempt to increase the end-plate effect. It looks a bit like a Scheel keel. There's no free lunch, however -- I shudder violently when I think about running aground in mud, which thank God and Neptune I have never done -- so far.

OTOH, the flat bottom of the bulb allows her to stand very nicely on her keel when I'm dried out in a dry dock.
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Old 28-12-2011, 12:33   #33
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Re: Heaving To With a Fin Keel...

I agree, that bucket had better be made of something like steel, and bigger than a 5 gallon.

Made for drogues use nylon webbing like seatbelts that can withstand thousands of pounds.

Read Pardley's "storm Tactics",
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Old 28-12-2011, 12:47   #34
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Re: Heaving To With a Fin Keel...

One or two or more old car tires make great drogues,not end of world either if you have to cut them away.They also make good fenders.My boat came with a drogue,but I never plan to use it.I would rather run off than heave to if possible.
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Old 28-12-2011, 14:25   #35
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Re: Heaving To With a Fin Keel...

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Originally Posted by jobi View Post
any idea for DIY drogue?
Small spare tires make good drogues and fenders (though they do mark the hull).
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Old 28-12-2011, 14:41   #36
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Re: Heaving To With a Fin Keel...

For the life of me i cannot understand why bother throwing old car tyres or buckets over the back or front of a vessel to slow it down?
To buy a drogue or sea-anchor for your boat is a part of being ready to cope with conditions that may crop up in the area you are intending to sail is not a huge outlay.
IMHO the comfort provided by using TRIED & TESTED equipment far out-ways relying on gerry-rigged rubbish.
LMAO i can picture a metal bucket or tyre being spat back at the deployer!!!!!
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Old 28-12-2011, 15:05   #37
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Re: Heaving To With a Fin Keel...

Quote:
Originally Posted by highseas View Post
One or two or more old car tires make great drogues,not end of world either if you have to cut them away.They also make good fenders.
Maybe! But please tell me how many old tires are you sailing around with on your boat. Where do you store them the 99.999% of the time you don't need them?
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Old 28-12-2011, 15:14   #38
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Re: Heaving To With a Fin Keel...

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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
For the life of me i cannot understand why bother throwing old car tyres or buckets over the back or front of a vessel to slow it down?
To buy a drogue or sea-anchor for your boat is a part of being ready to cope with conditions that may crop up in the area you are intending to sail is not a huge outlay.
IMHO the comfort provided by using TRIED & TESTED equipment far out-ways relying on gerry-rigged rubbish.
LMAO i can picture a metal bucket or tyre being spat back at the deployer!!!!!
Given the way old tyres mark everything they touch there is no way I am having one of those on a white GRP yacht. However, a drogue then yes if only to slow the boat to have a meal or give the crew a break.

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Old 28-12-2011, 15:16   #39
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Re: Heaving To With a Fin Keel...

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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Given the way old tyres mark everything they touch there is no way I am having one of those on a white GRP yacht. However, a drogue then yes if only to slow the boat to have a meal or give the crew a break.

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EXACTLY.....Tyres are for tugboats....
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Old 28-12-2011, 15:50   #40
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Re: Heaving To With a Fin Keel...

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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
Maybe! But please tell me how many old tires are you sailing around with on your boat. Where do you store them the 99.999% of the time you don't need them?
I always find room to store a few tyres onboard - it's a family tradition

Great for rafting up - to folks who come alongside with either no or a couple of mini-me fenders. Actually the offer to deploy tyres is usually enough . Me is not so bothered about my topsides having a few marks.

Also good for when mooring against stone walls......not so sure about using 'em as a drogue, not really decided about my Plan B for serious weather (Drogue / Parachute Anchor / Heaving to / Lying ahull), probably much the same as the old timers did - experiment to see what works best for own boat.........BTW Plan A is not to be there
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Old 28-12-2011, 16:30   #41
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Re: Heaving To With a Fin Keel...

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Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
Two thoughts,

About the bucket....I have seen it suggested to put a bucket off the bow to help keep the bow into the wind when hove to.

And....I have run a small riding sail up my back stay to help keep the bow into the wind.

What ever works for you.

I have never heard of the bucket for heaving to but it makes sense.

I've thought about a riding sail, but I have a split backstay. Not sure how it would work. I wouldn't mind sewing up something simple myself. A riding sail is a little down the list. No doubt if I do much anchoring out, that will change!
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Old 28-12-2011, 16:32   #42
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Re: Heaving To With a Fin Keel...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
It would have to be an awfully small boat for a 5 gallon bucket to make any difference. At the same time, a large boat in storm conditions is going to blow that bucket apart in fairly quick order. Think about it: most of us won't be deploying drogues until we're hitting 2X hull speed surfing down the swells.

You might want to consider the possibility that the person making this recommendation may not be a great source of advice on storm tactics.

Actually he is a very solidly experienced guy, but he knows I am sensible enough not to TEST a home-grown product in a bad storm. I guess I don't like it when people assume that my friends lack experience. If named some names, you'd be floored.
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Old 28-12-2011, 16:34   #43
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Re: Heaving To With a Fin Keel...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I think a Scheel keel is actually better than a regular bulb keel, at least, hydrodynamically. Like with a wing keel -- you get a big boost from the "end plate effect".

AFAIK both of these designs are superior to regular fin or bulb keels except only for one thing -- it is a big, big mess if you run aground with one. A wing keel, especially, will act just like an anchor when it hits the mud, and then you are really royally screwed. AFAIK that's the only reason why they are not universally used.

The "high perf bulb" (so-called by the designer) on my boat is significantly flattened, which I guess is an attempt to increase the end-plate effect. It looks a bit like a Scheel keel. There's no free lunch, however -- I shudder violently when I think about running aground in mud, which thank God and Neptune I have never done -- so far.

OTOH, the flat bottom of the bulb allows her to stand very nicely on her keel when I'm dried out in a dry dock.

Oh my gracious I got stuck in mud with a fin keel and it was a real, genuine trial. I don't even want to think about a wing keel! I think mud is God's original suction cup!
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Old 28-12-2011, 16:36   #44
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Re: Heaving To With a Fin Keel...

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
I always find room to store a few tyres onboard - it's a family tradition

Great for rafting up - to folks who come alongside with either no or a couple of mini-me fenders. Actually the offer to deploy tyres is usually enough . Me is not so bothered about my topsides having a few marks.

Also good for when mooring against stone walls......not so sure about using 'em as a drogue, not really decided about my Plan B for serious weather (Drogue / Parachute Anchor / Heaving to / Lying ahull), probably much the same as the old timers did - experiment to see what works best for own boat.........BTW Plan A is not to be there
Let me guess, Mr. Brit -- your hull is painted black?
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Old 28-12-2011, 16:41   #45
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Re: Heaving To With a Fin Keel...

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Actually he is a very solidly experienced guy, but he knows I am sensible enough not to TEST a home-grown product in a bad storm. I guess I don't like it when people assume that my friends lack experience. If named some names, you'd be floored.
LMAO How many modern day yachts would have a substantial METAL bucket aboard?
Handles and connections as strong as the rope used???? Seriously can any contributor actually attest that they have used a bucket for this purpose?
Granted if caught in the conditions that warrant slowing the boat down you'd tie the family dog on if necessary but maybe go buy a drogue/parachute prior or plan on trailing sheet ropes and experiment with those tools... Only my opinion.
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