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Old 28-10-2010, 12:37   #1
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Hard Bilge vs Soft Bilge . . .

As I was comeparing my boat to a 1967 model of the same make and designer, I realised my boat has a hard bilge (shalow) while the 1967 has a deep bilge.
I remember the owner telling me his boat was a much better sailer then the shalow bilge when I was undicided between both on witch to buy.

of corse I did not have a clue about what he was saying and thot he was only trying to make a sale. However its only now that I realise what he was talking about.

at present I love my boat and wouldnt change her for any other boat (except maybe my first love the Thompson T-24) just cant get over her!!

Pleas tell me its not so bad?
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Old 28-10-2010, 13:14   #2
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Hmm, lots of things will affect a yachts sailing ability, not least the skill of the skippers and their ability to set sails.

Stop worrying and go sailing

Pete
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Old 28-10-2010, 13:31   #3
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sailing will only be next year for me (boat on the hard)
winter is coming fast here in Montreal.
My only consolation until spring is to do a little bit of refit on wood and cousins, adding a pilge pump thos I dont have a bilge?? but still need at least one electric pump to satisfy coast gards.

But still I am intreaged on how a skiper can stop the hull from hammering the waves?
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Old 28-10-2010, 15:26   #4
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Slack bilges are characteristice of older full keel designs. Slack bilges cut down on wetted surface to give better light air performance. Slack bilges make for an easier mpotion without abrupt, touchy righting movements. They are initially tender but they harden up quickly. Ultimate stability is usually way better than their flat bottomed cousins for real world attributes,

As far as speed, the usually smaller sail area displacement ratio and higher wetted surface area makes the full keel, slack bilged boats at a deficit in light air. Once the wind gets up above 10 knots, they can often walk away from their newer competition. Increasing sail area can often help, though may not totally make up, for the wetted surface penalty.
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Old 28-10-2010, 15:58   #5
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Many slack bilged boats are under rigged but they don't have to be. The 12 meter class is a case on point.

Google Image Result for http://www.corbisimages.com/images/67/EB09A020-4008-45CE-A504-28A069D06334/RR016042.jpg

Here's a Ted Brewer article that talks some about form versus ballast stability:

Good Old Boat - Is your boat stable? article

John
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Old 30-10-2010, 10:59   #6
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the 12 metyer klass ha slack bilges due i the way they were measured. Thep paid a big penalty if the chain girth and the skin girth were much diferent.

There are lots of nice old slack bilged boats, for instance the Valiant 40.
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Old 30-10-2010, 11:11   #7
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nothing is BAD.... one adjusts sailing style to boat in hand. i always advise to sail other peoples boats BEFORE purchasing one for you as you dont know yet what is out there nor how it feels in the water. there is nothing wrong with any boat designed and floating. is sailing style that adapts to the boat. enjoy her and have fun.
if you dont like the way she feels, there ARE other boats out there.... try them before buying

if your bow is pounding, take weight from the stern and redistribute it to midships and some forward. look at the boat from outside--if she SQUATS, that means she will pound. is in the weight distribution--too much astern and not enough in midships and forward.
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Old 30-10-2010, 11:35   #8
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The boat is very well designed, after all Hinterhoeller was a designer for c&c befor.
iv looked at many photos and the hull dosent look that flat at all, ay leats not compared to many other sailboats.

Thanks for the good words
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Old 30-10-2010, 11:41   #9
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Hag:
I think your NA theories are wrong. But what would I know?
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Old 30-10-2010, 12:11   #10
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Hag:
I think your NA theories are wrong. But what would I know?
what do you mean?

tall me all you know I can take it...
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Old 30-10-2010, 13:11   #11
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Jobi:
I wqs taking to Zehag. He is very confused.
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Old 30-10-2010, 15:22   #12
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the 12 metyer klass ha slack bilges due i the way they were measured. Thep paid a big penalty if the chain girth and the skin girth were much diferent.
That was the big deal in 12 meter design around 1970 - boats like the Chancegger were designed to minimize the chain girth - skin girth difference even more. A side benefit was that it reduced the wetted surface. IIRC, it wasn't a sucessful way of exploiting the rule.
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Old 31-10-2010, 06:02   #13
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the 12 metyer klass ha slack bilges due i the way they were measured. Thep paid a big penalty if the chain girth and the skin girth were much diferent.

There are lots of nice old slack bilged boats, for instance the Valiant 40.
I was commenting on Roverhi's post before mine that slack bilged boats were under rigged. I wasn't trying to say that 12 meters wouldn't be a different shape if they had a different rule to design to, just that it is possible to build narrow slack bilged boats that aren't under rigged.

John
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Old 03-11-2010, 06:29   #14
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Good to see your post Bob. It's likely the original poster was comparing his canoe body to a CCA style hull form. I happily agree in many of the slack bilge designs being very fine cruisers. Jobi your hull is a typical canoe body and yes it's a fairly flat hull form, particularly compared to the CCA styles employed a few generations ago. Both hull shapes were influenced if not attempted to conform to a set of racing rules, which often all but ruined the sailing qualities of the yacht. Personally, I find it a bit of a sin that many of the qualities of the CCA hull forms have been dismissed in favor of the canoe body, though it's hard to complain, when you're on full plane and turning double digit speeds in a fairly short boat, that has berths for 8, an aft cabin and two heads within 15' of each other, on a 30' yacht. Hell, my old all teak, 35' Lion class sloop (yawl conversion naturally) had wonderfully reversed garboards, but the interior volume of a Catalina 22. In spite of this, she'd have faired far better then the canoe bodies in Fastnet '79.
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:56   #15
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par I regret so much not being able too keep the thompson-24 eventho she needed lots of refit. I remember the nice things you said about her.

dang I wish youd say the same for this hinterhoeller...This boat has almost nothing to do on exept for varnish and interior paint, other then this she seems ready to go anywhere I choose too...at least thats what I was thinking???

I was looking for a partnership that will take me to Aisia and beyond, not a speed demond with attitude, iv alredy had my share of rugh rides.

This body of mine needs to be preserved in comfort, hec even my 20years younger girlfriend of mine is too much to handle for this old boy.

pleas say it like it is, now is a better time then latter, is this boat good for the job?
should I start looking for an other boat?

kind regards
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