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Old 26-05-2012, 20:56   #31
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Will hire a captain to first go around the Baltic. First has to wait for the boat tho.
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Old 27-05-2012, 18:33   #32
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Re: Hanse Boats

FWIW,

There was an Elliot 55 located in Noumea a few years back that sported just such an open transom/no bridge deck layout. Inspecting it from our dinghy, Ann and I were shocked by the apparent ease of the pooping/flooding scenario developing.

Sadly a year or so later, the boat was pooped, downflooded and sunk with loss of life.

So, yes, it can happen... and I wouldn't want to go to sea in such a design.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 27-05-2012, 18:40   #33
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Re: Hanse Boats

Looks to much like an RV inside for me !!and the open stern is also a no no for me ! but then I could not afford one of em even if I did like it LOL
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Old 27-05-2012, 19:44   #34
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Re: Hanse Boats

Dual steering is only needed in serious racing with large crews trying to eek out that extra 1/10th of a knot. On any other boat it is just expensive fluff. That cockpit layout is just plain dangerous in a following sea. The crew of the Japan to San Francisco race a few monthes ago learned about being pooped, and the helmsman(helmswoman) hasnt been out of the hospital for too long. There are plenty of good fast cruising boats, but if you want to race, PAY YOUR DIME AND TAKE YOUR CHANCES. My highly opinionated opinion.____Grant.
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Old 27-05-2012, 21:53   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjordan
Dual steering is only needed in serious racing with large crews trying to eek out that extra 1/10th of a knot. On any other boat it is just expensive fluff. That cockpit layout is just plain dangerous in a following sea. The crew of the Japan to San Francisco race a few monthes ago learned about being pooped, and the helmsman(helmswoman) hasnt been out of the hospital for too long. There are plenty of good fast cruising boats, but if you want to race, PAY YOUR DIME AND TAKE YOUR CHANCES. My highly opinionated opinion.____Grant.
Hi grant, was the boat u mentioned a Hanze? Is there a web page to learn about the incident? Tx for the view.
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Old 28-05-2012, 04:09   #36
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Originally Posted by barnakiel
The one that you are familiar and comfortable with is best. The expensive ones can be somewhat better than the cheap ones, but this is not a strict rule. The best ones are pretty useless when one does not know how to use them.

If you are building a brand new boat then getting whatever comes in the package saves you time and cost on shopping and installation. Getting a bare boat and buying your own systems is only recommended if you know exactly what you want and can afford a technician to put them into the boat.

b.
Thanks for the email on the other recommendations.

Mon
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Old 28-05-2012, 07:08   #37
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Re: Hanse Boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
(...) sported just such an open transom/no bridge deck layout. Inspecting it from our dinghy, Ann and I were shocked by the apparent ease of the pooping/flooding scenario developing.

Sadly a year or so later, the boat was pooped, downflooded and sunk with loss of life.

So, yes, it can happen... and I wouldn't want to go to sea in such a design.

Cheers,

Jim
Jim,

There may have been a built /and/or/ design fault OR else a gross skipper's fault in that specific boat.

Hanse's 545 'open' transom is actually way ABOVE the deck level of most closed transom designs of very many cruising boats. It may be very difficult to decide which of the two types is easier to get pooped and flooded then - the higher and open transom or the lower and closed one.

I am attaching images of sterns on a typical Elliott (possibly similar to the boat you are talking about) and a typical Mini-Transat boat. Both with good look at their sterns.

Looking at the EXTREMELY low, open and exposed transom in the Mini we could ask how come they are still around, and kicking? They should be all pooped and flooded way before any Elliott, or Hanse does!

I think, the answer is: open transom is as seaworthy as any other design, as long as they are all designed, built and sailed well.

I will accept the point that any transom - open, closed, center cockpit or otherwise, can be well, or not quite well, designed and built. But we should not extend single cases (of failure under little known circumstances) and brand the whole idea of open transom design as unsafe.

PS I reedited and added image of Hanse 545 stern for comparison.

Cheers,
barnakiel
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Old 28-05-2012, 08:53   #38
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Re: Hanse Boats

The raceboat that was damaged off of the California coast was 68 foot, but I dont know the design. I saw a brief picture of it on the local news and I dont think it had nearly as exposed a helm as the Hanse. If it had been a Hanse there might have been more injuries. Since the OP doesnt seem to be a hard core racer, I would not think that layout would be suitable for comfortable cruising or safety. Looking again at the photo of the Hanse it appears that the helmsman cant even reach the winches. If you love that sort of boat PAY YOUR DIME AND TAKE YOUR CHANCES.______Grant.
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Old 28-05-2012, 10:04   #39
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Re: Hanse Boats

monster,

How about a Hylass 56??

Hylas Yachts

Pretty much same class ($$$$$).
IMHO, You should consider.

mm
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Old 28-05-2012, 10:34   #40
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Re: Hanse Boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by gjordan View Post

(...) Looking again at the photo of the Hanse it appears that the helmsman cant even reach the winches. (...)
I do not know what photo you are looking at. I believe the helmsman CAN reach the winches.

The other picture shows winch location on some other design - one that never gets bashed for open cockpits, winches, etc..

Looks like all modern designs are drafted by half-wits. ;-)

Cheers,
b.
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Old 28-05-2012, 14:38   #41
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Re: Hanse Boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Jim,

There may have been a built /and/or/ design fault OR else a gross skipper's fault in that specific boat.

Hanse's 545 'open' transom is actually way ABOVE the deck level of most closed transom designs of very many cruising boats. It may be very difficult to decide which of the two types is easier to get pooped and flooded then - the higher and open transom or the lower and closed one.

I am attaching images of sterns on a typical Elliott (possibly similar to the boat you are talking about) and a typical Mini-Transat boat. Both with good look at their sterns.

Looking at the EXTREMELY low, open and exposed transom in the Mini we could ask how come they are still around, and kicking? They should be all pooped and flooded way before any Elliott, or Hanse does!

I think, the answer is: open transom is as seaworthy as any other design, as long as they are all designed, built and sailed well.

I will accept the point that any transom - open, closed, center cockpit or otherwise, can be well, or not quite well, designed and built. But we should not extend single cases (of failure under little known circumstances) and brand the whole idea of open transom design as unsafe.

PS I reedited and added image of Hanse 545 stern for comparison.

Cheers,
barnakiel
G'Day Barnie,

Hmmm... seems that I was going on the first Hanse photo posted which shows a far lower transom than the 545 that you posted. I'll agree that the 545's stern seems to be much less exposed, it has a shallow cockpit footwell and a rather low bridge deck. In general, less prone to flooding for sure.

As to the mini boat... I bet that SOP there is to have the companionway boards in place in any threatening weather.

And finally, the Elliot that we saw was larger than the one you posted, the open area of the transom was much wider, there was NO bridge deck (can't see that in your post) and the level of the cockpit sole was pretty low. I can't speak to the issue of poor seamanship in it's loss, but if the boards were not in place, flooding was obviously possible... and did in fact happen.

As to closed transom vessels being pooped... sure, it can happen, but with a decent bridge deck downflooding is reduced or eliminated.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 28-05-2012, 16:05   #42
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Re: Hanse Boats

Yes. Elliott designed some customs and at times one can see nearly any designer do things I bet they would rather forget about ;-). Pita that ship was lost and a warning that no boat is big enough to avoid trouble from a bad wave.

Talking of things weird and kiwish below I link to a boat we saw long time ago in Auckland. She seems to have everything some CF members hate most: open transom, dual helm station and unreachable winches ;-). And yet!

Spirit Of Adventure 65 Blue Water Cruising Yacht : Owen Clarke Design - Yacht Design and Naval Architects

Warning: not to be used for navigation!

Cheers,
b.
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Old 28-05-2012, 19:16   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel
Yes. Elliott designed some customs and at times one can see nearly any designer do things I bet they would rather forget about ;-). Pita that ship was lost and a warning that no boat is big enough to avoid trouble from a bad wave.

Talking of things weird and kiwish below I link to a boat we saw long time ago in Auckland. She seems to have everything some CF members hate most: open transom, dual helm station and unreachable winches ;-). And yet!

Spirit Of Adventure 65 Blue Water Cruising Yacht : Owen Clarke Design - Yacht Design and Naval Architects

Warning: not to be used for navigation!

Cheers,
b.
What a beautiful boat. Looks solid. Price a little high and the boat is big for novice like me.i think need at least two captain beside myself for this.
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Old 29-05-2012, 08:01   #44
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The manufacturer comes with Simrad overall system. But from my reading I am sold by the Gamin navigation system and it's wireless capability. What's you guys think? Any advice?
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Old 13-06-2012, 02:08   #45
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Re: Hanse Boats

Any yacht can be pooped in the right conditions. Have been in a 70ft centre cockpit when beating to windward but then that's Bass Straight for you. We were pooped 4 times almost on the hour one very dark night. The only good thing was the water coming onboard was warmer than the stuff coming over the bow. The first time took us completely by surprise.

If its a worry with the open Transom some of the earlier Hanses had a closed Transom /swim platform option and it would not be too difficult to have such a mod done but doubt if it would be cheap as would need to be pretty solid and would need good drainage. I think on the 545 there is the dinghy storage dock opened from the stern which would need to be allowed for.

The early SIMRAD setups could be a pain, said to be due to software issues but said to be OK now. SIMRAD of course has been bought out as have others.

Former Hanse 400 owner waiting for a 445.

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