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Old 23-02-2019, 02:37   #91
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Re: Hanse 418 or Jeanneau 410?

None boat is perfect and of these two both have pros and cons. If you really have to decide between them just spec both similar way and ask for the best offer from each dealer and go for the biggest discount.

You will need these saved money to spec your boat properly for cruising, because Jeanneau for instance consider 2nd halyard winch (4th in total) as part of performance package!)

Aim for at least 10% discount. I.e. Our local Jeanneu dealer recently offered me 15% off on SO440.

And as mentioned earlier make sure your dealer has a good reputation in handling issues as any of them will have at least some.
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Old 23-02-2019, 04:15   #92
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Re: Hanse 418 or Jeanneau 410?

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Originally Posted by mglonnro View Post
This is a cool way to open up the interior by replacing the compression post with a carbon bridge. #clubswan50
No doubt very cool but that is more than a compression post is a global reinforcement of all boat, including deck at that point. It is certainly also hugely expensive.



Off course it is a hugely expensive luxury boat and they can do it the more complicated way to have a better interior without a mast but it would be much cheaper and at least equally strong to let the carbon mast come inside to the boat structure. Anyway that is not only a compression post, it has also structural functions.
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Old 25-02-2019, 04:36   #93
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Re: Hanse 418 or Jeanneau 410?

I am a delivery skipper.

Jeaneau
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Old 25-02-2019, 07:39   #94
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Re: Hanse 418 or Jeanneau 410?

When I look at a boat's interior it is from the standpoint of

1. Can I move through the interior from handhold to handhold
2. If I don't have a handhold or lose my grip in a 'pretty' handhold, how far am I going to fall when a big wave hits
3. What am I going to hit when I fall.

I look at those wide interiors with no handholds and sharp corners and I just cringe. My first act on making a passage on any of those boats would be to rig a taut line down the middle of the cabin.
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Old 26-02-2019, 08:05   #95
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Re: Hanse 418 or Jeanneau 410?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdCyprus View Post
None boat is perfect and of these two both have pros and cons. If you really have to decide between them just spec both similar way and ask for the best offer from each dealer and go for the biggest discount.

You will need these saved money to spec your boat properly for cruising, because Jeanneau for instance consider 2nd halyard winch (4th in total) as part of performance package!)

Aim for at least 10% discount. I.e. Our local Jeanneu dealer recently offered me 15% off on SO440.

And as mentioned earlier make sure your dealer has a good reputation in handling issues as any of them will have at least some.
You mean that jeanneaus come now standard with only two winches?
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Old 26-02-2019, 12:23   #96
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Re: Hanse 418 or Jeanneau 410?

No, 3 winches in standard. 4th winch is part of Performance package)
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Old 19-04-2019, 01:42   #97
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Re: Hanse 418 or Jeanneau 410?

Reviving this as these 2 are now on my shortlist (along with the 38 foot versions the J 389 and the hanse 388)

Im looking at putting one in med charter for a few years until i can sail again full time so the list of suitable boats is a bit constrained to what works best in charter with these 2 being in the top 3 or 4 most populous charter monos.

what did you end up doing kitrob?

From my perspective both boats have their pros and cons (having sailed neither so far though)

jeanneau pros

- solid glass hull below waterline vs hanse full composite even below water

- seems alot lighter at 7.7 tonnes vs the hanse at 9.8. Cant quite figure this out maybe they are using different displacement as surely the hanse with the full balsa hull shouldnt be this much heavier???

- shallower draft in shoal keel but at the expense of twin rudders. Mixed feelings on this as while it may helm better to wind it will be a handful for close quarters manouvering and med mooring for not just myself but charterers too. Is a bow thruster going to be a necessity in the med? Can anyone add any experience here?

- looks like it will be a better sailor than the hanse on the numbers

Hanse pros

- all lines led to helms, self tacking jib with large main - while the jeanneau will probably sail better this should probably sail easier shorthanded.

- prefer the layout with loads of light and ventilation down below. In charter guise with the extra ensuite head the v berth looks odd on the jeanneau being offset at an angle.


Hanse electrical panel is run through a pc board. having lived with one of these that decided to play up this could be a deal breaker. ( my old one decided to lock itself whenever it detected a low fuel alarm which of course was always when things were a bit rough)

Not sure about the jeanneau panel. anyone know?
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Old 19-04-2019, 06:30   #98
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Re: Hanse 418 or Jeanneau 410?

As an owner of a Jeanneau SO 440 in the Med, very similar to the 410, I'll try to answer some of your questions. The boat is lighter than you'd expect. We had an older Jeanneau Sun Kiss 47 and she's significantly lighter, much more so than the 3 less feet would indicate. As a result she sails faster, smoother, much easier to handle by hand at the dock, and turns very quick.

Yes the twin rudders reduce maneuverability at slow speeds while motoring because of the lack of prop wash, but we take this in stride given it is much more maneuverable and nimble when heeled over sailing. It does give you a bit of redundancy too. We have the deeper keel btw.

Even without the challenge of the twin rudders while slow motoring, I would still get a bowthruster. We are minimalists and have eschewed bowthrusters on previous boats, but learned quickly that in the Med there are a plethora of tight marinas and fuel docks to squeeze into. We were the minority without a bowthruster and quickly learned our lesson, and got an external mounted SidePower unit this winter. It saves space in the sail locker and you don't have as large of a hole in the hull. I think most charterers in the Med are going to expect to have one.

I'm not familiar with the PC board on the Hanse, but on our 440 it has a traditional row of breakers. See the top of the attached picture.

Overall, we are extremely happy. We have customized the boat in various big and small ways so we can cruise coastal and offshore with her, as I think most owners with similar cruise plans do with a production boat, and she's been a great platform in the 12 months we've owned her.
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Old 19-04-2019, 22:37   #99
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Re: Hanse 418 or Jeanneau 410?

^^^^^ Thanks for the excellent reply tom.

Yes thats a nice safe electrical panel that you can deal with in remote locations unlike the pc boards on the hanse. big thumbs up.

Like you I would only do a bowthruster if necessary as it seems a shame to load up this performance bow with all that weight and kill the light wind benefits.

But as a charter boat I think it would be inevitable a charterer would eventually rip one of those nice twin rudders off on the leeward boats chain while trying to med moor in a breeze. Probably even with a bowthruster actually

i think the redundancy is a bit of a rub as being unprotected by the keel they are more likely to get damaged in the first place so still a bit mixed on this side of it. Guess i need to sail one to see if the benefit outweighs it.

Really like the walk around deck on the 410/440 by the way.
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Old 19-04-2019, 22:54   #100
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Re: Hanse 418 or Jeanneau 410?

I'm managing a JSO519. I;ve been sailing various Jeanneau and one Hanse. I'd foget about the Hnse without doubt. I confirm, JSO electrical panels are sane. I regularly sail solo, I don't think the self tacking jib is necessary.
Cheers.
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Old 20-04-2019, 00:38   #101
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Re: Hanse 418 or Jeanneau 410?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barra View Post
Reviving this as these 2 are now on my shortlist (along with the 38 foot versions the J 389 and the hanse 388)

Im looking at putting one in med charter for a few years until i can sail again full time so the list of suitable boats is a bit constrained to what works best in charter with these 2 being in the top 3 or 4 most populous charter monos.

....)

jeanneau pros

- solid glass hull below waterline vs hanse full composite even below water

- seems alot lighter at 7.7 tonnes vs the hanse at 9.8. Cant quite figure this out maybe they are using different displacement as surely the hanse with the full balsa hull shouldnt be this much heavier???....
I don't see it that way. A well made cored hull is much superior to a monolitic hull. If you look among all good brands you will see that they all use cored hulls. The resistance to torsional forces are hugely superior on a cored hull that is much stronger weight for weight.

That leads to the question of why the Jeanneau is much lighter. It should be the opposite.

I like more the hull structure of the Hanse than the one of the Jeanneau that uses a contre moule as structure. f you have any problem with a grouding and need the boat checked or repaired you will have to dismount almost all boat to do that and the repair is complicated.

Sayng all this in what regards charter it is irrelevant. You should buy the boat most people want for sailing and believe most would want the Jeanneau. Normally a charter boat has about 7 to 10 years of life as charter boat and then it is sold.

Both boats should not have major problems in 10 years use.
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Old 20-04-2019, 00:52   #102
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Re: Hanse 418 or Jeanneau 410?

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Originally Posted by Kalinowski View Post
Let your wife make the final decision. "If mama ain't happy, no one's happy!"
We seem to be drifting from the OP’s original question, but since we are I didn’t want this comment to be overlooked as a semi-sarcastic quip, as there is much truth to this in my limited experience.

The short version is my wife hates wind, she hates being in water, she’s terrified of the ocean and she does not like the cold. Pretty much rules out sailing and cruising. Except she’s a very good sport and was willing to go along with my desire to buy a sailboat. We’d chartered 40’+ sailboats for many years, so when it came time to buy we looked at what is common to Southern California: Catalina, Hunter, Jeanneau and Beneteau. We looked at many, and narrowed our choice down to a Beneteau 423. There were many to choose from and we looked at all of them. She had her list of non-negotiables, I had mine. We bought the one she fell in love with, and she fell instantly and hard, for her it was love at first sight. In 2007 we bought our 2005 423, Hull #179. Fortunately, it also checked all the boxes, but it was her very emotional response to the boat that propelled us into the decision.

12 years later, she’s still a passenger, not a sailor. Occasionally, for financial or other life circumstances I’d get to thinking we should sell the boat. Each time she’s the one to put an end to the conversation, completely rejecting the idea.

So yeah, her falling in love with the boat made all the difference. And 12 years later, all of the boxes remain checked.

Cheers!
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Old 20-04-2019, 07:43   #103
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Re: Hanse 418 or Jeanneau 410?

Fbfisher excellent post. Been sailing more than 45 years with a reluctant wife. I just read something from Lynn Pardey, one half of the greatest cruising couple ever, that she hated being out in the wind.
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Old 20-04-2019, 16:47   #104
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Re: Hanse 418 or Jeanneau 410?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fbfisher View Post
We seem to be drifting from the OPs original question, but since we are I didnt want this comment to be overlooked as a semi-sarcastic quip, as there is much truth to this in my limited experience.

The short version is my wife hates wind, she hates being in water, shes terrified of the ocean and she does not like the cold. Pretty much rules out sailing and cruising. Except shes a very good sport and was willing to go along with my desire to buy a sailboat. Wed chartered 40+ sailboats for many years, so when it came time to buy we looked at what is common to Southern California: Catalina, Hunter, Jeanneau and Beneteau. We looked at many, and narrowed our choice down to a Beneteau 423. There were many to choose from and we looked at all of them. She had her list of non-negotiables, I had mine. We bought the one she fell in love with, and she fell instantly and hard, for her it was love at first sight. In 2007 we bought our 2005 423, Hull #179. Fortunately, it also checked all the boxes, but it was her very emotional response to the boat that propelled us into the decision.

12 years later, shes still a passenger, not a sailor. Occasionally, for financial or other life circumstances Id get to thinking we should sell the boat. Each time shes the one to put an end to the conversation, completely rejecting the idea.

So yeah, her falling in love with the boat made all the difference. And 12 years later, all of the boxes remain checked.

Cheers!
Drifting on threads is the whole point of this place mate!

Very relevant post to me at least as I'm one of those rare birds that's looking to go from mono to cat and now back to mono. Admiral driven to go cat as like many she dislikes healing and gets seasick from mono slow motion but not from cats faster motion.

Ive said bugger it though as in the med at least a mono is far easier to run logistically. Far easier to find places in harbours last minute, hauls, maintenance etc.

Might be a huge mistake but that's another reason why it's in charter first- to ease her into it!

The latest mono models like these two are taking alot of layout inspiration from cats these days. Just look at the 410 saloon and galley and you will see what I mean. I'm hoping this will be enough to win her over but will obviously be taking one of these boats for a charter first before committing.
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Old 20-04-2019, 16:57   #105
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Re: Hanse 418 or Jeanneau 410?

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I don't see it that way. A well made cored hull is much superior to a monolitic hull. If you look among all good brands you will see that they all use cored hulls. The resistance to torsional forces are hugely superior on a cored hull that is much stronger weight for weight.

That leads to the question of why the Jeanneau is much lighter. It should be the opposite.

I like more the hull structure of the Hanse than the one of the Jeanneau that uses a contre moule as structure. f you have any problem with a grouding and need the boat checked or repaired you will have to dismount almost all boat to do that and the repair is complicated.

Sayng all this in what regards charter it is irrelevant. You should buy the boat most people want for sailing and believe most would want the Jeanneau. Normally a charter boat has about 7 to 10 years of life as charter boat and then it is sold.

Both boats should not have major problems in 10 years use.
Hey polux

I know cats more than monos and the best cats are usually monolithic bottoms with composite sides. The budget cats are usually the ones fully composite.

Mainly for grounding strength.

I'll have to check out what you say about monos being fully composite lately. Does seem surprising.

So what does this contra moule construction mean exactly? Do you mean dropping a complete internal layout into a hull and gluing it in? Yeah that would be problematic access wise....
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