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Old 05-02-2009, 11:23   #16
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You may have a hard time finding one that someone is willing to sell, but consider a Lord Nelson 35. We had one for our Mexico cruising and it was very well constructed and designed. For example, all tanks and the engine could be removed if necessary with simple hand tools. NO cutting of any teak.
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Old 05-02-2009, 12:14   #17
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My husband and I are in the same situation as Hampus and I've been reading through the answers with interest.

Does anyone know about the relative merits of the Young Sun (35 or 43) as compared with the HCs, Babas, Tayanas, etc.?
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Old 05-02-2009, 12:50   #18
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I don't recall the specifics, but I glanced at a Young Sun while I was looking to buy 2 years ago and was waved off by a broker. Quality issues, as I recall. Anyway, brokers are brokers, so take that for what it's worth.
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Old 05-02-2009, 13:15   #19
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Speaking of Young Suns and Bob Perry, search for the topic "an email from Bob Perry!" on this site (monohull sailboats section). We looked at one when on the search the produced our Baba 35. [/shrug] Not much of a comparison, really.
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Old 05-02-2009, 13:53   #20
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I owned a HC 38. These are very stout boats. Mine was an '85. They are incredibly heavy and will not go into 3-5 foot chop in 10-15 knots of wind well at all.. even motor sailing. I think most of the boats mentioned are similar though. However, mine only had about a 40 hp engine. You will want at least a Perkins 4-108 (50hp) for this boat.. The amount of teak is not to be negated.... it's a huge job. There were originally two deck storage boxes (teak chests") on these boats, they are likely falling apart by now. It is possible a Tayana or Baba might be a better choice, my impression is they are not as overbuilt and thus may be lighter. The HC has a solid bronze wheel pedestal, solid bronze traveler support, 1.25 diameter railing, large pulpit and pushpit etc etc. These weigh hundreds of pounds. Outside storage on the HC was minimal for a 38, but the pushpit came in handy. Tankage on any of the boats could be an issue, be sure to look at how (if?) you can remove them. There were a few Babas built without teak decks, that would be a real plus. They are all beauties to the eye, but real high maintenance for sure. Lastly, Brokers have been listing teh HC 38's for $135k or so for years. It's a falsehood. Mine was on the market for 1.5 years (when the economy was good!) and sold for $90k. The whole cabin, deck had been repainted, teak decks removed and aluminum hatches installed forward . It was loaded for cruising. You make due with what you have so dont let me scare you off too bad. There are a lot of Tayanas around, you ought to be able to swing a great deal. You might consider a Morgan 365 or Fuji Alden 35 for less maintenance, but they aren't as pretty as the double enders. Teak decks are an issue with most allof them, the screws leak into the core of the deck, hard to determine on survey due to the Teak not letting the surveyor tap it out good and hear the dead spots....
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Old 05-02-2009, 14:00   #21
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Ref: young sun etc. The Babas were built in the Ta Shing yard which was (is?) the best boat building yard anywhere. I'm not sure about the HC's, but they are comparable quality. From what I've seen the Tayanas would be next and the Young Sun last. In the early days the Taiwan yards would steal a design from another yard, make a quick mold and build a copy boat and rename it. They dint have to pay the designer that way, but they didnt know as much about building the boat as the ones built under the eye of a surveyor or designer. Watch out for anywhere plywood is used and gets wet often inside. Under cabin sole etc.
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Old 05-02-2009, 14:53   #22
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Ta Shing is still around, although, AFAIK, no longer building boats, but is building Nordhaven (trawler) interiors. Baba owners are in contact with Lillian at Ta Shing for support items such as port light gaskets. In short, Ta Shing is still around.

At least on Babas, Pandas, and Tashibas, I'm not aware of outright deck failures or delamination. I do know of people who've taken up the teak decks and none of them reported finding damage in the fiberglass (there's no coring). In general, with reasonable care (occasional cleaning with detergent and a soft brush or pad), the decks hold up very well. As they should, considering they're about 1/2" thick. Abuse (scrubbing with the grain with a coarse brush, for example) will cause problems but then where's the surprise?

On our Baba 35, going into the Chesapeake Bay's 3 to 4 foot chop can be a handful on occasion. The problem arises from, I think, the broad stem and full hull carried further forward. The Tashiba 36 has a much finer bow and does far better with chop. (For those who haven't sampled it, the Chesapeake chop tends to be steep and close together. It's a good test of how "dry" the boat is, as spray flies around.)

Frankly, I don't think a 50 hp engine is going to be worth the bother. OTOH, when our Universal M-40 (rated at 32 hp) packs it in, we'l probably go with a 40 hp Yanmar, again similar to the engine in the Tashiba 36. The other thing that would help under power is a three-blade prop. Unfortunately, their drag, while under sail, is significant. The obvious alternative is a feathering prop, however, the shape of the prop apperture means the shape of the cutout on the rudder must be altered significantly to accommodate a feathering prop such as the MaxProp. Best to set sail and beat into the chop on a close reach, if possible.
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Old 05-02-2009, 16:28   #23
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Chessy Chop

Yea, nasty chop on the Chesapeake for sure. I spent a summer there until late Sept. Heading south spent the night in St. Michaels. I came out the next morning not realizing it was blowing as hard as it was (maybe 25+ with 35 gusts?) nasty chop getting out of there, turned the corner out from protection right into it and my 90 HP engine in my 47 Passport would not move me! I had the main up full but no head sail up. The boat was drifting toward the shallows being pushed back with each nasty 6 footer, so I went forward wading in up to18" of water on the foredeck and got the hank on staysail up, with that and the engine full I got out of there. Turned down wind and all was good. I have used this example of going down the Chesapeake that day in light-vs-heavy discussions here before: While headed down wind in this mess, I spotted a lightweight Hunter(?) coming into the chop going directly upwind motoring fast. He was just flying accross the crests making great headway. When I compare that with how my Hans Christian used to do in that kind of water..... well.... by my mind "Light is Right" ......of course it must be strong and light.....
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Old 08-02-2009, 15:24   #24
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I have been reading this with great interest because all these boats have caught my eye several times. The other boat I might through in here are the Vancouver's. Perhaps not a traditional as the others. Some of the Vancouver's were built in the same yard. I sailed one (32) last summer in significant confused seas. I was a very stiff little boat. The Pilot house was a real bonus. In the case of these Pilot house models, they are very much a sailboat that happens to have a PH. Too bad their so pricey. I guess ya get what you pay for.
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Old 08-02-2009, 16:21   #25
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Keep in mind that the Young Sun is not my design. I have no idea who designed it but my name seems to always get attached to it for some odd reason. Marketing maybe?

The Tashiba 36 is a very different hull shape than the Ty 37's, FD 35's and the HC's. The Tashiba is much finer forward with much less hull rocker and more deadrise. About the only thing it shares with the others is a point on the stern and a general aesthetic approach to styling. I think the Tashiba 36 is a very good boat. The Tashiba 40 and Tashiba 31 also share the same hull form as the 36.

From what I read on this thread I think most of the advice is spot on. However, I will say that there are ways to make a boat move through a steep chop. We get a steep chop on Puget Sound. You can't pinch a boat in those conditions. You have to bear off and let the boat build up some steam, sail "fat" so you can power thru it. It's never much fun. If your sails are old and blown out of shape you are going to have your hands full.
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Old 08-02-2009, 17:39   #26
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Thanks, Bob, for jogging my recollection on coping with Chesapeake chop. One of the worst times we had with it was in 20-25 kts in the open Bay, with a solid chop running. We couldn't get the boat going for love nor money. Oh, yeah, and we had to cover about 50 miles to meet my mother, driving in from NC. Had we opened things up instead of trying to cling to the rhumb line (and schedule) like grim death, we probably would have been fine sailing. Instead, we motored.

And, of course, thanks for the Baba.
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Old 09-02-2009, 13:49   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob perry View Post
Keep in mind that the Young Sun is not my design. I have no idea who designed it but my name seems to always get attached to it for some odd reason. Marketing maybe?

The Tashiba 36 is a very different hull shape than the Ty 37's, FD 35's and the HC's. The Tashiba is much finer forward with much less hull rocker and more deadrise. About the only thing it shares with the others is a point on the stern and a general aesthetic approach to styling. I think the Tashiba 36 is a very good boat. The Tashiba 40 and Tashiba 31 also share the same hull form as the 36.

From what I read on this thread I think most of the advice is spot on. However, I will say that there are ways to make a boat move through a steep chop. We get a steep chop on Puget Sound. You can't pinch a boat in those conditions. You have to bear off and let the boat build up some steam, sail "fat" so you can power thru it. It's never much fun. If your sails are old and blown out of shape you are going to have your hands full.
Thak you!

Yes, steep chop is what we see here in Scandinavia. Shallow and narrow waters. sailing "fat" as you say is the only way I can get my 13000lb 31ft boat to move upwind.

Is the deck of the T37 balsa cored?

/Hampus
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Old 09-02-2009, 14:42   #28
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The Hans Christian we had was a fine cruising boat. We had a great time for 2 1/2 years.
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Old 09-02-2009, 15:10   #29
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Don't fall for the, "Wood masts are bad" mentality. I felt the same way before I bought my Passport 45'. BTW, she was built in the same yard as the HC......

When I bought her, one of my 1st steps was going to be to replace the wood masts with aluminum masts. The main mast had wood rot in the spreader area.

I removed the masts as soon as I bought the boat, before I put her in the water.

I was amazed at how light the masts were, compared to a comparable mast in aluminum.

A guy came up to me in the yard and asked if I needed help repairing the mast (he was a out-of-work shipwright). I told him that I planned to use them for firewood and buy aluminum masts. I thought he was going to faint. He told me that not only are the wood masts light but they are stronger and more flexible than aluminum masts. That started me on a quest for more info on wood masts and I found that he was correct.

Anyway, he scarfed a new piece into the mast for me and showed me how to do it. I coated the mast with 2 coats of West System epoxy resin, 2 coats of epoxy primer and then 2 coats of LP paint. I replaced every fastener and every tang. I never had another issue with those masts (in 9 years and a circumnavigation) and I felt confident that if I had a failure in some obscure place, I could repair it on my own.
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Old 09-02-2009, 16:05   #30
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The early model Tayana 37 decks were cored with small squares of mahogany plywood as I recall. The later one built most probably had a balso cored deck.

Whenever I showed up at the yard I'd hear some yell "Quick! someone! take him to lunch!". We did not have a close relationship. But they were a blast to have lunch and dinner with.
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