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Old 03-02-2015, 05:44   #1
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Hans Christian 48T

Ok I have this hair brained idea that I am pretty sure will flop like a dead fish when I present it to hubby but I am going to try anyway. As some of you know hubby and I have been talking about buying a boat...someday. Now I have him narrowed down to two years. We have been looking at big and relatively new boats $$$. The problem is sending off three teenagers to college one after another is going to be expensive and my money getting less and less and cruising getting further and further away I was down right depressed. I have been sulking for days.(also had bronchitis) until I read the frugal thread.

Hubby and I are frugal people. We fix things rather than replace them. We have an antique Maserati that hubby has done most of the work on himself. Hubby grew up on a farm.

Anyway that is a side track...sorry. So the frugal thread got me thinking... What if we took an older boat and made it ours by fixing it up? So I started looking in that direction. I have found a boat that meets that description. Needs new decks and new sails but it costs less than the down payment on the other boats we were looking at. Hans Christian's are supposed to have good bones. So I have sent off a couple of investigatory emails to find out about the cost of decks and sails. I am waiting to hear back. I need this information to give hubby the complete picture. I can't decide if I am desperate, on the right track or out of my mind.

Thanks for listening


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Old 03-02-2015, 07:45   #2
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

Unless you are an experienced boat builder, avoid do ups.

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Old 03-02-2015, 08:20   #3
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

It could be a great deal if you're willing to put in the time and energy to do most of the work yourself. Our present boat had only 600 hours of use when we bought it, but it looked like it had been beaten up with an ugly stick on the outside, the decks were in terrible condition. After realizing that most of the repairs could be done on my own (I have over ten years of pro wood working and experience), we purchased it when nobody else seemed interested at nearly $150k off the going price. 300 hours of hard work later we have an awesome boat. The key factor here is the ability to do the professional work that's needed on your own.

Regarding a Hans Christian, you better be willing to put in plenty of time. That's another reason the boat is so much cheaper than other brands... very few folks today want to spend the time or money working on all that exterior wood. They just want to get out and have some fun... which has plenty of merit... I'm actually more in their camp.
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Old 03-02-2015, 08:32   #4
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

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Originally Posted by LasVegasBob View Post
This is probably the most far out beginning thread even on this site,
I am planning to circumnavigate the globe in early 2017 when I will be 85 at the time. I am planning on establishing a Guinness book record for the oldest man to circumnavigate ALONE in a sailboat. I need all the help possible in obtaining Sponsors for EVERYTHING including the boat (27'-34') fully equipped for the task. This would include Boat, and ALL POSSIBLE equipment required to perform this monumental task. All help and advice is appreciated.
I am physically fit, an ex US Marine in excellent physical condition.

I do not need any comments about hair brained schemes, I get all of those from my son.
I like your plan.

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Old 03-02-2015, 08:39   #5
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

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Originally Posted by brookiesailor View Post
Ok I have this hair brained idea that I am pretty sure will flop like a dead fish when I present it to hubby but I am going to try anyway. As some of you know hubby and I have been talking about buying a boat...someday. Now I have him narrowed down to two years. We have been looking at big and relatively new boats $$$. The problem is sending off three teenagers to college one after another is going to be expensive and my money getting less and less and cruising getting further and further away I was down right depressed. I have been sulking for days.(also had bronchitis) until I read the frugal thread.

Hubby and I are frugal people. We fix things rather than replace them. We have an antique Maserati that hubby has done most of the work on himself. Hubby grew up on a farm.

Anyway that is a side track...sorry. So the frugal thread got me thinking... What if we took an older boat and made it ours by fixing it up? So I started looking in that direction. I have found a boat that meets that description. Needs new decks and new sails but it costs less than the down payment on the other boats we were looking at. Hans Christian's are supposed to have good bones. So I have sent off a couple of investigatory emails to find out about the cost of decks and sails. I am waiting to hear back. I need this information to give hubby the complete picture. I can't decide if I am desperate, on the right track or out of my mind.

Thanks for listening


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Unless you're hungup on a particular boat keep looking. There are always boats in good condition that are well equipped and available.

I myself have 3 trades, 3 engineering degrees and decades of motorsport and vehicle restoration experience. No job is out of my reach but major resto is off the cards. Its a lifestyle constraint for us.

My wife and I bought a well maintained and well equipped Liberty 458. We took 18 months to find her. General maintenance and enhancements keep us busy enough.

Major work will mean you aren't sailing. A sailboat is a complicated system. Lots of time on the water is crucial to building up your skills and becoming comfortable and competent.



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Old 03-02-2015, 15:31   #6
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

Hello Brookiesailor,

Each person has a different point of view and values and resources.

If you have the resources ($$) to make the boat "yours" by refitting it, I see no reason to not do so, if you calculate that the boat will be of greater value to you (as a refitted boat) than some newer boat or different style. As with any boat purchase, what determines that "value" may not be solely based on the "resale" value of the boat.

I happen to like the Hans Christian traditional styling and once came close to purchasing a 43 footer. They have a certain appeal that won't appeal to all, but to those that like them, they are beautiful (or can be).

Years ago I did not like the look of the Pilothouse version of the HC 48. But today, I like it and can imagine it would be nice to have in the PNW or other cold or rainy locations. So, tastes can change with time and new appreciation for some aspects or characteristics of the boats change too.

One thing that has changed (for me) over the years is my desire for teak decks. While I still like them, they can be a liability if they leak through the decks or cause soft/rot deck cores. They are a big dirty task to replace, so if you consider an older boat that needs replacement of the decks you might want to consider removing the teak and going to a synthetic or applied non-skid such as "Treadmaster."

I have seen some estimates for teak deck replacement that calculated to about $600 or more per foot of boat length for someone to do the replacement for a boat owner. For a 48 foot boat, that might mean $28,000 to $30,000 for just the deck replacement in new teak.

As for the other wood on the exterior of those boats (hatches, trim, etc.), one does not have to keep them varnished. The traditional styling of the HC line often looks good with unvarnished (natural finish, weathered "silver") teak. In fact, to some it is even more appealing when the teak does turn to silver, as it gives the boats an even more "salty" look.

Good luck on your choice!
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Old 03-02-2015, 15:51   #7
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

The 48 is a lot of boat.

There is a new company in Europe doing Hans Christian sales called Easy Way Techniques(Services we proviide...) who have a packaged product for deck replacement. The 48T is priced at $24k plus about 2k for shipping.

Our 33T is an original Hansa yard Hans Christian with solid core decks, so our teak doesn't leak, but we are considering ripping up the teak in the gunwales and replacing with a non-skid. The teak on the cabin top and cockpit is still in pretty decent shape.
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Old 03-02-2015, 17:23   #8
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

Thanks all. Still thinking on this one. As we are a long way from home we would have to hire out the deck refit. I have been given a quote of $1000 a linear foot, which is about what I figured. I wait on a quote for sails.

Hubby is an amazing guy. Besides growing up on a farm, his hobby is wood working, where he builds and repairs furniture. He is also a ships engineer so a really handy guy to have around a boat. He is constantly in motion.

The timeline would fit our scedule as we need two years to be ready to do some sailing. (Mostly to weed through the waiting time for a slip). The boat currently resides a couple hours from my inlaws on the hard. I would leave it there until the decks are done. Then move it south to our us home.

It is still just a thought so input is appreciated.

Brooke


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Old 03-02-2015, 17:43   #9
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

I have a bias about the Alajuela 38, which is by far a very fine vessel, and can be purchased at a very reasonable price. One of those "just the right size" kinda boats.
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Old 03-02-2015, 18:07   #10
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

Many boats haven't been designed to efficiently accommodate a replacement of the deck. I looked at a Passport 43 that just had it's deck replaced and the interior looked like a bomb had gone off in there. In order to access backing plates to remove various deck installations, not only did the headliner have to be ripped out, but cabinetry and roof panels had to be sawed through and removed. YMMV with different boats so just make sure you know what you'd be getting into with that particular model. The same is true with chainplate replacement: some boats have been designed so that it's a piece of cake; in others it practically renders a boat disposable.
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Old 03-02-2015, 18:09   #11
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

Sorry--Passport 42
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Old 04-02-2015, 04:34   #12
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

I am waiting on repair quotes. I have a friend in louisiana that has a sail loft and a co. In Florida to quote the decking. I am not a patient waiter. The sun hasn't even come up there and I am checking email. I know this plan is a long shot but the more I think about it the more I think it could work


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Old 04-02-2015, 09:09   #13
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

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Originally Posted by brookiesailor View Post
Thanks all. Still thinking on this one. As we are a long way from home we would have to hire out the deck refit. I have been given a quote of $1000 a linear foot, which is about what I figured. I wait on a quote for sails.

Hubby is an amazing guy. Besides growing up on a farm, his hobby is wood working, where he builds and repairs furniture. He is also a ships engineer so a really handy guy to have around a boat. He is constantly in motion.

The timeline would fit our scedule as we need two years to be ready to do some sailing. (Mostly to weed through the waiting time for a slip). The boat currently resides a couple hours from my inlaws on the hard. I would leave it there until the decks are done. Then move it south to our us home.

It is still just a thought so input is appreciated.

Brooke


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I have refitted several boats of my own and refurbished/repaired some auction boats I picked up to flip and know the amount of work required. In my earlier life I've restored older classic cars/motorcycles and built custom hot rods and motorcycles. All those experiences added to my skill set which made refurbing boats a natural progression, like your husband I'm a perpetual motion machine, oh, did I mention I've held full time careers and refurbed/rebuilt older rental properties to pay for it all?
But, in reality there are some jobs that you need to think about before diving in.
What is your present skill set?
Do you have enough raw experience to learn along the way and refine your abilities?
What kind of free time do you have? Anything you redo on a boat will take 4-5 times as long as you thought it would if you've never done it before.
Have you ever taken on a large project like this? If so, did you finish it or did it linger until you felt it was "good enough" and then let it die?

You can't do projects on a cruising boat that are done to a just "good enough" level, your life depends on it. If the boat won't float your going to have a bad day.

The current boat I have is being fitted out to do extended cruising, it too has teak decks over fiberglass (not sure what Hans Christians have though) which need to be replaced. In my case I've decided to remove them and resurface the fiberglass deck then put on non-skid, in the long run it is a better alternative. Even though I love the look and feel of teak decks even if I seal the decks and bond the teak to the deck instead of screwing it down there will still be a fair amount of maintenance involved with having them.

If you decide to refurb a boat there is a plus side to it.
You will know that all the work was done right, even if you did have to do it twice.
You will still be way under the cost of paying someone else to do a half baked job, even if you have to do it twice.
You will understand and be able to service/fix/ troubleshoot/ jury rig just about every system and part on your boat without needing a paid "expert" to do it for you.
Something to consider if you decide to travel to those far off destinations, self reliance can add a certain amount of confidence in your decisions.
Nothing has ticked me off worse than paying some "expert" to do a job that I had to then do over myself because they did it half-assed.
It's a true commitment of time and money, at sometimes it can seem like an obsession, but it takes a pretty dedicated commitment to refurb a boat if you want to finish it. Finish being the key word here, I've picked up many cars, motorcycles and boats which were 75% done but never got finished by the original owner for a fraction of the cost they had into them.
Those have been some of the most profitable purchases I've made, they did most of the dirty work, bought all new equipment then given up the ghost when their level of commitment didn't match their ambitious plans. Of course it's kept me on the water in nice, newly fitted out boats at a fraction of the cost most people incur.
I've found the work to become a zen thing, when you've finished you have something to show for it that is rewarding, unlike most of the work we do in the modern world.
All depends on how you look at it.
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Old 05-02-2015, 23:13   #14
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

So I pitched the idea to my husband last night and he didn't run screaming or do the usual automatic no! Instead I got...get me more info. Which I did. I am trying not to get my hopes up.


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Old 06-02-2015, 07:19   #15
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

Doing the work yourself is one way, but hiring out the work to others is quite different. Be prepared for the contractor to find lots of expensive underlying problems just like on an old house.


Example: One time I found a small 12"x 18" piece of siding on our old house that was kind of spongy. Upon further investigation, we needed to remove a huge section 20ft x 10ft and all the underlying plywood along with the insulation and some of the studs to make a proper repair due to all the rot and carpenter ant damage. Total cost was close to $2000 doing 1/2 the work myself, most folks would have probably just painted over the spongy piece.


If you plan on hiring out all the work, you're not going to like boat ownership very much unless you have lots of extra money hanging around. I don't mean this as a shot at any of the boatyards... those guys have plenty of legitimate maintenance work to do that boat owners are sometimes unable to do themselves. Restoration work is much different, much slower pace & harder to find good competent affordable help.


I'll pass on some free good advice that a broker told me years ago prior to buying our Hunter. I was looking at Hans Christian, Baba and other high maintenance boats during my search. He asked me, "do you like working on boats, or do you like enjoying your vacations? Because, if your goal is to enjoy working on boats... keep looking at the yachts will all the exterior wood, you'll enjoy many hours, days, weeks even years working on it. But, if you want to enjoy your vacation.... buy a low maintenance boat with no exterior woodwork." He recommended the Hunter 450 with no exterior wood.... a great choice. We hired a guy for $100 per month to do all the washdowns , and we never had to spend any time working on the exterior. Super advice.
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