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Old 06-02-2015, 15:59   #16
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

I am well aware of things not going as planned and costing more than you think. That antique Maserati wasn't running right when we bought it. The more hubby dug the worse it looked. Ended up having to pull the engine and replace the crank shaft. Now the transmission needs to be rebuilt. Parts and know how are a problem. It will get done someday. Right now it is in storage.

So I am figuring 20% more than the highest bid. Still brings us in under the down payment for the boats we were looking at. But I wait. Not gonna rush hubby. I want this to be our decision and not one I pushed him into


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Old 06-02-2015, 16:30   #17
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

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Originally Posted by brookiesailor View Post
I am well aware of things not going as planned and costing more than you think. That antique Maserati wasn't running right when we bought it. The more hubby dug the worse it looked. Ended up having to pull the engine and replace the crank shaft. Now the transmission needs to be rebuilt. Parts and know how are a problem. It will get done someday. Right now it is in storage.

So I am figuring 20% more than the highest bid. Still brings us in under the down payment for the boats we were looking at. But I wait. Not gonna rush hubby. I want this to be our decision and not one I pushed him into


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That Masarati will be like spending loose change and a few spare hours compared to refitting a boat. The boat is selling cheap for a reason. That reason will be that anyone that knows what they are in for will avoid it like a plague. Sit down with a spreadsheet and very, very carefully calculate out the work and expense that needs to be incurred and then triple the final values. This will result in a reasonable estimate of what it will cost in time and money. Why 3x I hear you scoff? Because the teak decks and sails will only be scratching the surface. Every time you dig a little deeper, even if you have had a decent survey done, you will be sure to discover something else that needs $$$ and time to fix.

If you're happy with the final numbers, then go for it.
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Old 06-02-2015, 16:33   #18
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

The 48 Is a heck of a boat for sure. Long waterline and one of the most beautiful out there.
Why replace those decks? How bad are they? how about a replug and recaulk?
If not that, then remove the teak decks and have the deck painted. No way would I spend $24k to put a "product" on.
A couple years ago in the recession a 48 sold up here in the PNW for I think 98K. It looked pretty good in the pictures. (:>)
Couple things to think about:
Water and Fuel tanks.. many HC's were black iron or SS glassed into the bilge. How removeable are those on the 48? under the "furniture"?
I don't think there was one fitting I had to remove to remove the decks on my HC38 (avatar) HC put decks around fittings.
I had the teak decks recaulked, sanded, replugged and screwed on my Passport 47 for about $5000 15 years ago in Florida. How much today?
Watch for engine condition on that old a boat.
The boat might be worth more with the teak decks removed... and lighter.
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Old 07-02-2015, 16:45   #19
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

The engine was replaced in 2006 with low hours. So far I am just going off an add and it is an idea. The ad says decks in need of repair or replacement. I wanted to price out the more expensive of the two and hope for the cheeper. Thanks for the info on the tanks, if we go forward we will def have the boat surveyed. So far we have not discussed it further. We are in the process of booking a vacation th the Seychelles, our first charter.


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Old 08-02-2015, 06:32   #20
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

I wrote the broker today and am having him go and give the boat a once over. I trust him, we have been in conversation with him for six years and never has he pushed us. I told him to wait until it warms up though. Nothing will happen on our end until after tax season and tuition.


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Old 10-02-2015, 16:43   #21
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

Ok I admit it my note to the broker was premature. I was looking for information only and I didn't get it, instead I got the buy now speal. As much as I want a boat I don't feel comfortable making an offer on the limited information I have now. Not to mention I sent the note before talking to hubby about it, who might I add took it really well. The broker said he would get me the info I am looking for so I wait. When faced with pushy people I back off, sometimes walk away. I have been dealing with this broker for six to eight years and never experienced the hard sell like this. Things must be slow. Hubby wants to talk tomorrow when he gets home from a trip. Could go either way.


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Old 11-02-2015, 09:15   #22
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

If the boat is so hot why is he pushing you to "buy now"?
I first saw our current boat in September, the year before we put money down, I had been looking for 3 years and it fit all our needs including my need for a decent, stable, quick passage maker and my wife's list of interior layout and creature comforts. She also wanted a boat she would have good visibility from the helm with, which is important since there is a height difference and it was an issue on our last boat. It was also in our price range.
It seems the longer you've been sailing, the harder it is to find a boat that fits your needs, if it's to be a live aboard cruiser the search becomes even harder due to the number of boxes to be ticked off. You tend to fusier about little things.
So, where was I, oh yeah, brokers.
The broker for this boat stated that it was a rare, sought after piece that wouldn't last long on the market, right. My wife was not really hot to buy a boat at the time due to other pressing matters on our plate, I understand that there's never a convenient time to buy a boat, it's always the wrong time. So I took a ride with a friend (it was three states away) to do a cursory inspection and found the boat to be everything we were looking for and close but not quite the shining diamond the broker portrayed it to be, he was fairly honest in his assessment of the boat but of course put a positive spin on it. That's his responsibility to his client, he works for the seller, not the buyer.
We talked a little further, my wife didn't want to deal with it at the time, I respected that, so I let it drop, fortunately I've owned enough boats that I've never felt the absolute need to own a particular boat, there'll always be another one that will come up, but this one did fill the bill to a high degree.
Some time after the first of the New Year my wife looked at the pictures again when things had calmed down and became more curious about that boat, I looked on line and low and behold, that same boat was still up for sale at a slightly reduced price, imagine that. We got around to taking another drive in the begining of February to do a really in depth assessment (basically I did a full inspection to the level that a surveyer would) and we talked it over on the way home. We let it rest for a week or two, as we do with any big investment, and then decided to start talking seriously with the broker, by this time it was the beginning of March. Remember, this was a hot, highly sought over boat.
So I had it surveyed at the end of March, I did it a little backwards and had it surveyed before making an offer, I wanted to start with my price and work from there, not the opposite. We finally made an offer at the end of April and were able to quickly agree on a price which worked for all, I wanted it for what I thought was fair to me, the owner didn't want to have to pay for another season, it worked for both, I wasn't a bonehead about it, what I offered was fair and in the end it ended up fair for all parties involved.
If an agent is pushing it, always ask why, unless it's a jewel and radically under priced for the market it's not a hot commodity, otherwise there's a fair chance it will be there in two weeks or two months, or 8 months.
Don't get emotionally attached, go look at it first hand to see if it's as good a deal as is advertized. If you don't have a lot of knowledge on how to inspect it there are a lot of articles and books on what to look for, remember, your going to have to live with it for a long time.
Take any pushy sales guy with a grain of salt. You don't have to have it, it would just be nice to have it.
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Old 11-02-2015, 18:48   #23
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

Life o'reilly,
I want to say a heartfelt thank you for bringing things back to size. I saw this boat on the market well over a year ago and dismissed it because of the work involved. When my situation changed I did a search again and found it still for sale at a reduced price. The owner is at a very advanced age and is looking for a quick sale. That is where pushy broker comes in. The broker is my own but knows we have been looking for almost a decade for the right boat and time. This is the most viable option we have looked at so far.

For us timing is everything. Right this second doesn't work for us, but three months might. I agree if this boat sells there will be others. I am trying to take a step back, which is hard for me to do when I get excited about things. If it is meant to be then it will still be so in May. I got lots going on between now and then.

So again thank you


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Old 11-02-2015, 19:42   #24
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

If you haven't already, check out Hans Christian Owners Association Its not that active but there is a ton of useful info if you search. My wife and I just recently finished up (its never really finished) a complete refit on our Hans Christian 41. New decks, bowsprit, chainplates, rigging, engine, plumbing, wiring, etc, ect. In the end it took us a lot longer than we had expected with a lot of projects leading to others, but understand that at the beginning we knew very very little about fixing boats or even how their systems worked. Now that we are finally done and just about to head out for our first trip to the Bahamas, we not only have the boat we both wanted set up exactly the way we want it but we also have a bunch of useful skills that we learned along the way and the confidence that goes along with them. I certainly would not recommend this route to most as I have watched quite a few fail or give up and we came close to walking away on more then one occasion our selfs. The best advice I could add is to not only get a surveyor but get a GOOD and extremely anal surveyor that you absolutely trust! They are not all created equal and we ended up with a very experienced one (30+years) that missed nearly every major problem. Don't confuse experience with skill.
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Old 11-02-2015, 22:03   #25
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

And keep in mind that a 48 HC sold for $100k just a couple years ago here in the PNW. Good negotiating with something like that....
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Old 11-02-2015, 22:34   #26
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

Brookiesailor,

Seriously..... You've been shopping for the "right boat" for ten years? And you're going to put off the decision on this one for another three months?

I can't believe the broker is still spending (wasting) his time assisting you.
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Old 11-02-2015, 23:43   #27
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

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Originally Posted by brookiesailor View Post
Ok I admit it my note to the broker was premature. I was looking for information only and I didn't get it, instead I got the buy now speal..."

"...When faced with pushy people I back off, sometimes walk away. I have been dealing with this broker for six to eight years and never experienced the hard sell like this..."
Brookiesailor: I've enjoyed following your posts (buying adventure!) but have to admit that I'm a bit... perturbed...

It's understandable that this is a big deal for you. It's not just the boat purchase but it's committing to a serious lifestyle change and shouldn't be taken lightly nor hastily. However, EIGHT years and it sounds like he's still being helpful?

Sounds like the sort of Salesman most people say they want to me.

If he's now trying to encourage you to pull-the-trigger it's either because he wants you to finally ****, or get off the pot.

- or -

He truly thinks given his long-term relationship with you that this is a good and proper solution for you.

Given the eight year relationship - I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. He's earned it.

Now, this isn't to sound mean but it's a bit insulting that you would ask him to take what sounds like a good chunk of his work-day to get more information on this boat when you hadn't even invested the hour or so to discuss it with your husband?

You do acknowledge putting the cart before the horse and that's nice, but the bottom line is you acted selfishly by putting your wants over his needs (need to earn a living).

Then you state that he acted pushy and YOU may not want to deal with HIM?

Not cool.

I wish you well on your boat-buying adventure and do look forward to more updates -
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Old 12-02-2015, 05:57   #28
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

Sondor,
I appreciate your candor. You are right that he deserves the benefit of the doubt. He has been more than patient with us, but knew we had an extended time line due to my husband's job and our previous location. This is a big decision and I get nervous. When people push me I tend to retreat. I think that was more the issue than anything. Hubby was out of town until this afternoon. He promised we would discuss it this weekend. Because of taxes and college tuition next month might not work for us, but the following month may. I am not the financial wizard in the family and I need to defer to hubby on the subject. So far hubby has kept the communication on the subject open, which is a hugely good sign. I haven't responded to the broker because I want to make sure hubby and I are on the same page.

Again thank you for your candor


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Old 12-02-2015, 06:20   #29
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

Kenomac,
I guess not knowing the whole story it does sound obsurd. We originally contacted the broker when I was living in louisiana. We thought we were going to be there forever and we're looking to buy a used boat. When we met the broker convinced my husband that he should consider larger and new (the broker is a builder too). Within months we were transferred to Angola for two years. Getting a boat there was not an option so we saved our money to buy (put a down payment on) a new boat. Two years dragged into five. We were just released from Angola this past summer. We moved to dubai. I took some cruising and navigation courses and started looking for a boat again. Hubby is hard pressed to part with his money. So I went from looking at new, to lightly used to fixer uppers. That is when I found this boat. I needed information and the broker was the closest most experienced person I knew. I told him in my initial correspondence that it was a few months out. Taxes soon to be due and my eldest is waiting on college acceptance. I agree that the broker has been more than patient, but we have not been jerking his chain for ten years we have been completely upfront with where we were at and what we could do. This has been the first truly viable option and I think it will work out. Now it is just getting hubby to open his wallet!


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Old 12-02-2015, 11:44   #30
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Re: Hans Christian 48T

Sounds like the situation I had when buying our most recent boat, the owner was 85 and had last sailed it down to the islands from Maine when he was 83, he wanted to keep going but his wife was worried about what would happen if he were to fall ill or fall overboard during a passage. It pushed him to sell it and buy a trawler to putt around in during the summer season.
Ten years is a long time though, I thought 3 years was a long time looking for the right boat, but I had one to sail during that time (haven't been without a boat in 30 years), you might want to push your hubby a little more though, it's amazing how fast time slips away. Maybe that boat is the bargain you think it is, unfortunately boats deteriorate faster when sitting idle so you might want to move along a bit.
There's never a convenient time to buy a boat, it's always a bit financially straining, but once your there and using it you find a way to make it work. My wife and I both are professionals with healthy salaries and own rental properties as well, but we are both frugal in most ways which has allowed us to enjoy the sailing life. There is one TV in our house, it's not new, I drive a 2000 model car with 320,000 miles on it, my wife drives a similar vintage car, we live a humble life which has allowed us to acquire the boat we need and put away the funds required to achieve our cruising goals.
My wife was totally onboard with our cruising dream when we were married, the timing kept getting pushed out because it was never a "good" time to do it. I finally had to have a heart to heart about time and age and opportunity. Fortunately she is a good person who backs up what she says and we were able to set a hard date, well at least the year, this has given her a new sense of urgency and really brought home the amount of work that needs to be done in that period of time.
I'm now raising my second family and if experience has taught me anything, it's that there's no time like the present. So if you really feel it's the right thing then do it, you'll always have reservations, as anyone making a big decision should but don't let it stop you if you really feel this is what you want to be doing. We'll be setting out when our boys 8 and 10, it doesn't make it any easier but it does make it just as rewarding.
When we bought the current boat my wife was extremely anxious but once there she felt it was the right thing to do, and now after the first season with it she's convinced it was the right choice. It was the first boat we bought together, all the other boats, including the one we met on I had obtained prior to us getting together and getting married so it was her first big purchase of a floating work project, to her it was a stressful experience, to me it was another project I need to complete.
I hope it all works out for your boat dream, and hey, if this one doesn't work out, there will be another, but time does keep moving on and there's always more reasons not to than there are to do it. If you can't afford a new one then get the used one you can afford. Whatever gets you on the water.
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