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Old 30-06-2016, 06:08   #61
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Re: Handling a 45+ foot boat

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Originally Posted by fallingeggs View Post
Kenomac, would you agree or disagree that an overpowered smaller boat is easier to get under control than a larger one (not taking into account powered winches)? Say you were caught with full sails as a squall line hit.

Agreed that once you get both boats under control, the larger would be more comfortable and safer.


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Ken can answer for himself, but larger boats are far less prone to get out of control, and are no more difficult to get back under control if you do get whacked. In fact, they are probably easier to get back under control because it is so much easier to get around a larger boat. The forces are greater, of course, but everything in the rig is designed for those forces, and usually with greater reserves of power and strength. You can't leave aside powered winches (and furlers), because if you've got 'em, you've got em -- it's part of the system.

When it's your vessel vs. nature, your chances are better, the larger your vessel is. You should know this yourself -- conditions which are a matter of survival in a 20' day sailer, are no big deal in a 36' cruising boat. Just remember how little it takes to knock a 20' boat flat; how hard it can be to stay on board. How hard it can be to handle the forces in a sudden violent squall, with the small gear on a 20' boat, which are so easily handled by the winches and tackle on your 36-er. Exactly the same happens when you go from a 36' cruising boat to a 50'+ one. All of a sudden real ocean F8 conditions are no big deal.
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Old 30-06-2016, 06:08   #62
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Re: Handling a 45+ foot boat

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Originally Posted by fallingeggs View Post
Kenomac, would you agree or disagree that an overpowered smaller boat is easier to get under control than a larger one (not taking into account powered winches)? Say you were caught with full sails as a squall line hit.
I wouldn't agree.
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Old 30-06-2016, 06:45   #63
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Re: Handling a 45+ foot boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingeggs View Post
Kenomac, would you agree or disagree that an overpowered smaller boat is easier to get under control than a larger one (not taking into account powered winches)? Say you were caught with full sails as a squall line hit.

Agreed that once you get both boats under control, the larger would be more comfortable and safer.


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The larger boat is much easier to control. It doesn't get knocked around nearly as easy as the smaller boat, and when the wind picks up, the larger boat has systems in place to furl the sails in much more quickly.

For example, on our boat I can take in or let out the main sail or jib fully in less than 15 seconds, simply by pushing a button. I can't remember ever being overpowered on our boat, simply because we have systems in place which make it so easy to stay ahead of the weather.

We did in fact get hit last season by a white squall at 2am. Full sails up and almost no wind, then pounded by 40 knots with only a minute or two for the wind to increase. Again... No big deal regarding the sails which were furled in less than 30 seconds as the boat was turned 180 degrees. In fact, our sails can be furled quite easily without having to point directly into the wind, which needs to be done on a smaller boat. Ours can be furled on any point of sail....

Just by pushing two buttons to unfurl and one button to furl.

Hydraulic Reckmann jib furling system & electric Selden mast furling system, neither of which come cheap. And both systems have manual over rides which we've needed to use a couple of times, again... No big deal.
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Old 30-06-2016, 07:15   #64
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Re: Handling a 45+ foot boat

Makes sense to me. Will have to load up on these easy buttons on my next boat :-)


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Old 30-06-2016, 07:28   #65
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Re: Handling a 45+ foot boat

I've never felt the need for power furlers on my 3 furlers (2 masts and headsail)
Just de-power the sails and furl.
With manual, I think you get a much better feel if you are stressing the rig or if something is hung up.
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Old 30-06-2016, 07:38   #66
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Re: Handling a 45+ foot boat

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Makes sense to me. Will have to load up on these easy buttons on my next boat :-)


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These are what you are looking for. I've gotem sprinkled all over the boat and man... they have saved my bacon many a time! (cheap too)

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Old 30-06-2016, 10:59   #67
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Re: Handling a 45+ foot boat

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I've never felt the need for power furlers on my 3 furlers (2 masts and headsail)
Just de-power the sails and furl.
With manual, I think you get a much better feel if you are stressing the rig or if something is hung up.
The more expensive/high quality furling systems have built in safeguard mechanisms so you can't over stress them. They shut off if there's more friction than the preset allows. When things begin to tighten up, there's a very noticeable audible sound. You'll know well in advance if things aren't right or something is hanging up.

Forget about elbow grease, easy buttons are great!
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Old 30-06-2016, 12:54   #68
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Re: Handling a 45+ foot boat

Wow thanks for the responses everyone, the forum stopped sending me emails that I was getting replies so I haven't checked back here in a while.

Sounds like I've generated some controversy but overall the verdict is handling a larger boat is something you can get used to, and easier in some ways.

We have selected a different broker (John Albertine) who is a bit more open minded. Our budget is about $100k but there is some room to stretch up to $130k for the right boat. Girls are young and could sleep in one cabin for now, but we are planning on making this a lifestyle for a while.

On the short list for this weekend is a Brewer 44, Tayana 47, Gulfstar 50 Mk II, Heritage 46, and the Olympic Adventure 47. There are a few more if we have time.

Where can we find private listings, besides this forum?
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Old 30-06-2016, 15:33   #69
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Re: Handling a 45+ foot boat

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. . . but overall the verdict is handling a larger boat is something you can get used to, and easier in some ways.
Good summary.



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. . . On the short list for this weekend is a Brewer 44, Tayana 47, Gulfstar 50 Mk II, Heritage 46, and the Olympic Adventure 47. There are a few more if we have time.

Where can we find private listings, besides this forum?
Tayana 47 is the sweetie in this bunch.

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Old 30-06-2016, 15:55   #70
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Re: Handling a 45+ foot boat

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Good summary.





Tayana 47 is the sweetie in this bunch.

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I agree with Dockhead on this. The Tayana 48 is the same boat with a swim step transom and might also be worth a look.


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Old 30-06-2016, 17:57   #71
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Re: Handling a 45+ foot boat

Your broker is wrong. My wife and I went from a Catalina 22 to a Hylas 54. Yes we had chartered a few 45s and I've raced boats as long as 70' But I never had experience driving and docking such a boat as our Hylas. Within 3 months of having it we were completely comfortable managing it all throughout the great lakes. A bow thruster is important, though when it stopped working for a few weeks I was still able to dock her, even by myself, and with lots of wind. We couldn't be more happy with the displacement, heft and comfort of our Hylas and I think all those people who keep telling everyone to go smaller just wish they could have the same opportunity or completely forget that humans are learning machines and for everyone there is a first time.




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Old 01-07-2016, 16:00   #72
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Re: Handling a 45+ foot boat

Gulfstar 50
Gulfstar 47
Irwin 51
Endeavour 51
Tayana 47 or 49 - cant remember which
one of the larger island packets

Just my suggestions- sounds to me like broker is steering you towards boats he has and wants to move- get a new one (broker) - find a boat you like, then pay somebody to give you lessons in your boat if you are not comfortable at first.- just my thoughts- the advice may be worth what you paid for it.
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Old 03-07-2016, 08:09   #73
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Re: Handling a 45+ foot boat

also disagree..

sailing extensively on a Farr 56 and when the squall line hits the boat heels a little and goes a lot faster..
Sailing my own Sabre 38 and a squall line hits, I had better have already reefed and trimmed in advance or it will be toerail and more in the water and way more excitement than i would wish.



Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingeggs View Post
Kenomac, would you agree or disagree that an overpowered smaller boat is easier to get under control than a larger one (not taking into account powered winches)? Say you were caught with full sails as a squall line hit.

Agreed that once you get both boats under control, the larger would be more comfortable and safer.


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Old 03-07-2016, 10:08   #74
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Re: Handling a 45+ foot boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingeggs View Post
Kenomac, would you agree or disagree that an overpowered smaller boat is easier to get under control than a larger one (not taking into account powered winches)? Say you were caught with full sails as a squall line hit.

Agreed that once you get both boats under control, the larger would be more comfortable and safer.


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Disagree also. Been there, done that! Managing 40' 7t cruiser/racer in rough weather is wet and sporty task. Prepare snicker bars and hot tea in advance.
On the other side 54' 20t cruiser/racer is much more manageble, also thanks to powered winches, bowthruster and 20t. You can cook your coffe down bellow. But yes, its a lot of boat for two and have to be more careful and plan in advance

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Old 03-07-2016, 10:21   #75
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Re: Handling a 45+ foot boat

With 3 kids you will need a boat that size.
Yes a 47 footer can be a handful to handle in strong winds. But docking etc my wife and I had no problem dealing with that part. It's trying to deal with the sail area in strong winds that's a challenge. There were times with big primary winches and a two grip handle I literally could not rotate the winch... and that's with a 115% lapper!
The Tayana may be a good choice, but I agree with the broker on some of the older boats you mention... unless you are really into mechanic-ing and etc.
Gulfstar or Morgan maybe if they were very well kept up. The Morgan more so than the Gulfstar.
Hylas, Tayana, Passport, Wauquiez or anything Ta Shing built would be high on my list.
Formosa, Cheoy Lee, CT, Irwin, would be low on my list. I like some of them but they often have issues that require a lot of work.
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