Gulfstar

[2nd Dog Watch]

I guess I should chime in here, even after the thread is almost 2 years old. We bought a 77 GS 43 ketch a few years ago. We installed a bow thruster and with two big holes in the bows, we had a chance to see the lay-up and it looked very impressive to us and a surveyor, showing only many laminations of roving, not sure about chopped, and thicker than I expected. We also installed two Espar diesel heaters which required us to drill 1" holes through the glass, one foward, one aft, about 3 inches below the hull to deck joint and found the glass to be 11/16" also appearing with many lams of roving. We have never seen any indication of hull blisters nor are there any issues with the decks. The original gelcoat is in excellent condition with no crazing or cracks anywhere and is dry, albeit a little dull, but the boat is now 35 years old. 1977 was the first year for the interior joinery up-grade, redesigned toe rails, hatches, for at least the 43, which started production a year earlier in 1976, of which 80 copies were built, my hull is #44 I've seen a few 37's with the same joinery of that year. I am very pleased with my 43. The newer 44 by the way, is what I believe to be Lazzara's fix for accomodations, or lack there of, in the 43, they look almost alike, side by side! The current 43's on the market (YW) hold their value quite well if not better than many of the same style and vintage. Yes, most of the older GS boats, pre 1976 bosted RV style interiors with simulated wood formica etc. I wasn't aware of their inferior hull lay up issues though. I guess GS had evolved, too bad they don't make them anymore.

[SOULCAPTAIN]

I'm about to go look at a 1977 GS 50' sloop. Is there anything someone would like to point out that I should pay special attention to? I read all about 77-78 being the 'transition period' between chopper gun and full cloth lay-up, is this an absolute? And is there a way to ascertain this from looking at the boat (on the hard)?
Also, does anyone have comments on changing the aft bed configuration from the athwart-ship design to the walk-around queen, like that found in GS 47's?
Thanks.

[2nd Dog Watch]

SOULCAPITAN This is what we did to inspect the hull sides and bottom........Upon haul for the prepurchase survey, our hull was sounded with a hammer and got a nice sharp consistant return instead of a dull thud that might have indicated possible issues including poor lay-up and or blisters, also we had the bottom scanned with a moisture meter. I am not aware of other methods for inspecting lay up integrity. It's hard to tell just by looking.

[SOULCAPTAIN]

Thanks for the insights. The boat is on the hard...hull being painted, issues addressed, mast off...so I should be able to see more than normal. I'm also going to engage a surveyor to come look with me (after I've seen it with owner). Not a "survey" per se, just another set of eyes to explain things and give me insights.
Cheers...
Send any info...

And I'm still hoping to hear from someone who might have changed the wrap-around U bed (aft) into a centerline queen.

[NCountry]

Our GS 44CC has a piece built into the the middle of the space left by the "wrap around". Basically it's just a piece of plywood with a fid on the end. The frame of the bed its self has had three pieces of wood attached for the plywood to set on. A cushion was custom made to fill the space. It works great!

[jonsuki]

Maybe there are not more posts because all of us Gulfstar owners are happily sailing our boats! We live aboard with our two kids on a 1984 CC Gukfstar MKII. Love her!!!

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, jonsuki.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by SOULCAPTAIN

I'm about to go look at a 1977 GS 50' sloop. Is there anything someone would like to point out that I should pay special attention to? I read all about 77-78 being the 'transition period' between chopper gun and full cloth lay-up, is this an absolute? And is there a way to ascertain this from looking at the boat (on the hard)?
Also, does anyone have comments on changing the aft bed configuration from the athwart-ship design to the walk-around queen, like that found in GS 47's?
Thanks.

Just curious, if the boat is out of the water - does it have a "wineglass" type hull form (sort of a curved deep V) or is the hull wide and sort of flat and then there is a 3/4 length keel area running from bow to just aft of the cockpit?

A few hints of things to look at for "before the purchase" are the chain plate bolts. Normally the chain plates are internal, piercing through the toe rail. You may see the chain plate bolt heads in a line on the outside surface of the hull. If they are not painted (or even if they are) look for red/brown rust stains running down the outside of the hull from them. This is an indication that the chain plate bolts are corroded and need replacing.

This can be expensive as normally in Gulfstars the portion inside the hull is also behind side walls and other furniture. So getting access to them is a major removal of interior stuff pain in the ass job.

Likewise look at the "slits" through the toe rail and see if the caulking has pulled free from the chain plate or the fiberglass portion of the toe rail. If it has then most probably water has been working its way down inside the hull and behind the sidewalls. If this is the case look for rotten wood in the transverse bulkheads near the chain plates.

If the standing rigging (wires and terminals and turnbuckles) are more than 10 years old. Look with strong binoculars to see if the tops of the wires are "swag" fittings or "Sta-Lock" or similar fittings. If the wire is old and the top fittings are "swag" terminals it would be wise to go aloft and visually or with dye-penetrant check for cracked swag fittings or broken strands in the wire cable. Replacing standing rigging can be quite expensive but replacing a lost mast and rigging under way is much more catastrophic.

Everything is fixable, it is just that some of these items could have a significant effect on the purchase price.

There are many, many "after the purchase" things to check before heading out off shore, but the above might help on the "before-purchase" examination.

[SOULCAPTAIN]

Osirissail: I only have a short video of still pics sent by owner at the moment, have not seen boat in person. Send me an email at soulcaptain@gmx.com and I'll send you the video, I appreciate your insights.
SC

[Tim P]

Hi,
Does anyone have experience with the Hood in mast furler that was used by
Gulfstar in the late 70's and early 80's
Tim P

[osirissail]

See; #1
There might be something there of use . . .

[graham]

Originally Posted by osirissail

Having been a Gulfstar owner and cruiser for nearly 20 years, don't buy one unless you intend to stay close enough to a shore to swim there. As was said they were built to a "price point". I have friends who worked in the factory when they were being built and many "shortcuts" were routinely done to save costs.
- - However, the interiors and layout is one of the best ever designed and they are very comfortable to live in. We build an affection for any boat we live in for a period of time which is rarely tempered by cold reality. The proof of the value of the construction and durability of a boat is in its current market price. Certain brands have high resale prices and some typically have very low ones. Gulfstars are in the low end which makes them more affordable per foot of boat to buy. However, depending upon your nautical karma, you will curse the day you bought it or merrily sail around enjoying the fabulous comfortable interior.
- - I would not take mine around the world but as an island boat it is fabulous. Bottom line, it all depends upon how you intend to use the boat and how much money you have (per foot of boat) to spend.

Old post I know, and I'm not trying to be a pain, but this kind of reply to someone's question about Gulfstars really burns my hide.

I see your Gulfstar is a 54, which is a wonderful live aboard, but a motor boat hull with a mast on top.
Was never meant for offshore, likely it is very unsafe, but there are many Gulfstars, many wonderful ones that to experienced sailors are far superior to most sailboats made.

Take the 43 Gulfstar Sailboat, 78ish, rated just below the 42 Westsail, and above the 44 Peterson for offshore cruising.
And anyone whose sailed on for any time knows that they serve a variety of uses.

Offshore they are sturdy well built boats that take a 35 knot wind and 6 foot or higher seas comfortably, and in low wind they pretty much cruise along by themselves, point well and don't play havoc on the atohelm.

Amazingly, though they are great offshore boats, there shallow draft and low bridge clearance from 48 feet makes it an ideal boat to do the ICW.

I've sailed on G50 77 ish slopes and loved them, have 4 friends who are long time owners of a 43, 44 and two G50 and not one has had abnormal blister issues,

Weak points are the usual deck leaks, toe rails, mast thru cabin top leaks, all of which can be fixed, and all of which will take another 2o years to have to revisit.

I think Gulfstars for the money are magnificent buys, but stay away from the pre-76's, and the motor boat hulls, and of course, when Gulfstar did their move with CSY etc, everything went so far down hill that they went into the Bencatlinhunter class of plastic bottles.

[osirissail]

I know people who are currently circumnavigating in boats which would be hazardous to your boat's health if they anchored next to you. And they successfully, somehow, make it around the world.

If you get into the history of Gulfstar you will see their earlier production models being definitely "built to price point." And a very low price point. However, in the later year models, things changed for the better, sometimes significantly. So the age group that your Gulfstar is in does make quite a significant difference.

In the early years Gulfstar made two model boats, wineglass sail boats and trawlers. The larger models sailboats were indeed "trawler" hulls modified to mount mast and sails. This is the group of boats that my Gulfstar fits into.

However, I have personally seen Gulfstar 50's and 53's suffer keel collapse while in jackstands during blister repairs. That doesn't mean that ALL Gulfstars will suffer that fate but only that you need to be seriously careful in investigating which year and model boat you have or want to purchase.

Many Gulfstars of the early years have undergone extensive hull repairs eliminating the problems of hull integrity. These boats are most probably in the "gem" category of used boats for sale. Their price range is depressed by the nature of the whole Gulfstar history, but these individual boats have been repaired to move them into the sound and solid category and subsequently are very good deals. Only careful examination will tell you whether you are looking at one of these boats.

[graham]

Originally Posted by graham

Old post I know, and I'm not trying to be a pain, but this kind of reply to someone's question about Gulfstars really burns my hide.

I see your Gulfstar is a 54, which is a wonderful live aboard, but a motor boat hull with a mast on top.
Was never meant for offshore, likely it is very unsafe, but there are many Gulfstars, many wonderful ones that to experienced sailors are far superior to most sailboats made.

Take the 43 Gulfstar Sailboat, 78ish, rated just below the 42 Westsail, and above the 44 Peterson for offshore cruising.
And anyone whose sailed on for any time knows that they serve a variety of uses.

Offshore they are sturdy well built boats that take a 35 knot wind and 6 foot or higher seas comfortably, and in low wind they pretty much cruise along by themselves, point well and don't play havoc on the atohelm.

Amazingly, though they are great offshore boats, there shallow draft and low bridge clearance from 48 feet makes it an ideal boat to do the ICW.

I've sailed on G50 77 ish slopes and loved them, have 4 friends who are long time owners of a 43, 44 and two G50 and not one has had abnormal blister issues,

Weak points are the usual deck leaks, toe rails, mast thru cabin top leaks, all of which can be fixed, and all of which will take another 2o years to have to revisit.

I think Gulfstars for the money are magnificent buys, but stay away from the pre-76's, and the motor boat hulls, and of course, when Gulfstar did their move with CSY etc, everything went so far down hill that they went into the Bencatlinhunter class of plastic bottles.

you have a Gulfstar 53 I meant to say

[Defiant II]

Osirissail's loud & broad opinion is indeed unfortunate. His knowledge is reflected by the fact he bought a Gulfstar motor sailer. Yes, big, roomy and actually a powerboat surplus hull with a keel slapped on. Power boats never seemed to be Lazzarra's passion and suffered for it.

Here are some facts;
The motorsailers are for motor boaters who want to pretend they are sailors or save a little fuel from time to time. A sailor will find they sail like a pig. They are an inexpensive, spacious boat as O man said, but they did suffer from being originally formatted from the parts bin.

The chopper gun was introduced in 1981 to production when the business changed in August. The last Gulfstar 50 AUX was laid the first week of April and rolled out in late August, after the filing I think.

As stated the powerboats made money for the group prior to 1981, but never seemed a passion. The Power division was bolstered by the buyout and the sail division disappeared. The mold was sold to CSY and you will find 1988 and 1989 CSY50's with the same hull, but more plastic inside. They also shortened the keel and rudder as most of these went into charter.

I specialize in restoring GS50's and GS44, both reviewed by many authors and magazines as some of the 10 best cruising boats ever built. On the 50Aux the first year was 1975 and the last 1981. Every model year got better. Enthusiasts will fly from around the world for '81's as there were only 16 ever built and some were lost in Andrew and Hugo. They are no-core fiberglass cloth boats prior to 1981. Most were built as ketch rigs and the sloops are a sought after commodity.

A great many of these boats have been charters, but don't let that scare you. These boats are 31 to 37 years old, WHO and HOW they were maintained is far more important at this stage of the game. At this age new owners should prepare for Barrier Coating. This is an expensive job due about this point in most hulls life. The Gel coat is ground off and it is best to let the boat dry for weeks in a dry climate before applying the barrier coat. I picked La Paz, Baja California Sur, Mexico.

Do watch for dry rot around the rear hatch on the 50's and the original Gray plastic ports are usually replaced with stainless on refit. The Grays have a lifespan of about 25 years and there is usually some dry rot to be repaired at the time, as most people on most boat don't re-bed the ports often enough. Caulking dries out folks!.

Both boats are excellent for tall sailors having nearly 6'8" headroom throughout, with the exception of the passageway, but that is true of most center cockpits. I prefer the model without the starboard side mini cabin. I don't want that many people sleeping on my boat anyway! I'm tall and the larger engine room allows for more equipment and gear.

I'd frown on many other models and all of the motor sailers if you like to run the rags. Osirissail was right in the fact these were "Chebbies" and just the worst of both worlds. But I love to sail, so I'm jaded. I have boxes of trophies won in long and short distance racing with my (bought new) 1979, restored 1978 and now restoring a 1977. Look up their PHRF!

At this juncture in time beat boats can be had for $20K-35K, while those well maintained and tricked out will sell for well over $100K, just about what they cost brand new out the door in 1979. Interior design leaves some to be desired. You will find lots of cubbys of wasted space and just Plain Jane is woodwork.

In some years of working on these I've found one that appeared to be laid up on to humid a day or something. It delaminated just behind the keel and had the owner struck something even moderately, it might have doubled up on him.

I single handed a beat up 1978 GS50 I won in a poker game from the Mombassa, Kenya (Indian Ocean) to Englishman's Bay in Trinidad (Caribbean) in 1988, with two stops for food and water.

I am less familiar with the GS44 but it too is a legendary cruiser, many like it more than the 50's because slip and maintenance are less. This model is tall inside too and many of these were also built for charter.

Electrically very simple but you could run most entire electrical systems off the gauge wire run on each circuit on the 50's original wire was 10 and 12g when most other boats use 14 to 18g. Of course with today's LED lighting and lower draw devices you could rip that out and sell the copper to the Chinese! (lighten the boat a bit too!)

The bow sprit is something I've removed on two and didn't exist on the CSY50. Only really serves are an anchor roller and costs you that extra meter in those marinas and yards that actually measure the boat. That can be as much as $60 a month more in some marinas. But that sprit looks really nice with a well stuff bikini standing on it! Trust me!

My credentials? Sailing since 1968, Owned three GS50, restored 6 more of the 179 ever built, (you'll know my loving restorations as I stamp my "logo" beneath the hull number) managed one of the larger marine maintenance companies in San Diego between my major businesses in early the 90's and been a full time cruising vagabundo since 1999. I've sailed half the world from the Seychelles Islands to Hawaii, logged well over 50K miles and am currently restoring a 1977 GS50 in Mexico to complete the other half before I turn 55. We should relaunch in March, 2013.

Right at this moment I am on a Cheribini/Hunter 37 Cutter, (a lesser boat but also a "Corvair Classic" if you will, a boat generation before they became a Clorox bottle with a mast.) in Bahia Balandra in the Sea of Cortez. It is 7AM Dec 4, it is 72°F and the sun is coming up. Does your office have a corner window??? LOL!

Every boat has it's detractor - i.e. someone who missed a payment and the bank took the boat back et al... Consider your source...