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Old 30-04-2010, 14:21   #31
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This thread reinvorgated my interest in what I had done a sloppy job on. I talked to a fellow who specializes in Gulfstars this morning and what he said made sense in terms of the responses here. There are two different tracks here that are important to keep distinct: design and construction

Design
In the early 1970's Gulfstar was inexperienced and was producing beamy motorsailor type designs. These include osirissail's 53-footer which doubled as a trawler when Gulfstar put in a larger engine. These do not have the greatest performance or offshore motion. They are island boats or coastal cruisers with roomy accommodations. These opinions dovetail with this thead's comments.

Around 1978, Gulfstar made a change towards high performance sailboats. There were still some beamy motorsailor designs like the 47 Sailmaster, but in general, the company moved towards designs like the 50, 44, and 60 Gulfstars.

In the early 1980's, Gulfstar switched again towards displacement motoryachts. Then, they switched to true motoryachts which he considered the 54 Sailcruiser to be the last evolution and maybe the best boat Gulfstar ever produced. This makes sense with sybaris's comments.

Construction
In the early 1970's, Gulfstar construction was lower quality than later on. This lower quality production is independent of the designs. It is not that all Gulfstar motorsailors are poor quality. It just so happens that all the early production boats were motorsailors, and during this era, the company was inexperienced.

When I say lower quality, I can illustrate this by certain techniques. In general the dividing line is somewhere around 1978. Before 1978, the interiors were mostly formica - inexpensive and functional. After then, the interiors were teak verneer and used a patented process to camber edges. The dark teak joinery work is as good or better than any manufacturer out there especially in the late 1980's. Also before 1978 approximately, they used iron ballast and afterwords lead ballast both encapsulated. Lead ballast is one of the fundamental ways to improve performance by using a denser material to lower center of gravity. All the Gulfstar 44's, most the 50's, and all the 47's have lead ballast. I am sure there are many other examples of changes in technique, but these are two I have.

But despite the increase in quality as Gulfstar became more experienced, they were still hit hard by blister problems throughout. The oil embargo caused all manufacturers in this era to try innovative ways to save resin. The chopper gun probably affected them too. And this was before the wide use of blister preventing vinylester resins. If there is one thing that even later Gulfstars can be affected by, that is blister problems. They call this the blister pox of the 1980's. I think it is critical to ask about the blister history and last time a bottom job has been done on a Gulfstar irrespective of the era.

Ecetera
Hope these insights help. I am tracking down a Nautical Quarterly Article from the late 1980's/early 1990's that is supposed to have great information about Vincent Lazzara. If anybody has a copy, I would be interested in seeing it. Otherwise if I find a copy, I will scan it up and post a link here. I guess that might be copyright infringement?
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Old 28-10-2010, 18:27   #32
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I'm looking at a Gulfstar 37 1977. First thing it needs is a holding Tank. How did you owners of the 37 install your holding tank and were and what size.
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Old 28-10-2010, 19:51   #33
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To install a holding tank look around inside the boat and find some empty or vacant space close to the head. Usually there is dead space behind furniture or even in the head itself if it has a stand up separate shower with a seat.
- - Next you go to boat surplus stores and even mainline boat supply stores and find a polypropylene tank that fits the vacant area. You have to be careful of installing fitting on polypropylene as virtually nothing sticks to it. Anyway, strap the tank into position and run hoses from the MSD to the tank and then from the outlet run a hose to a Y-valve with one leg going to the deck waste pump out fitting. The other leg goes to a macerator pump and then to an exit through-hull/seacock. Add a vent line and it is all done.
- - Size of the tank is more controlled by the space available to hold the tank but a 15gallon poly tank is good enough for almost a week.
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Old 29-10-2010, 07:53   #34
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Joker most 37s i believe from what i read on the GulfStar site a couple yrs ago was to take out the Lectrasan in the sink compartment and put it there. it will prob. fit a 10-15 gl. one. i have a GS 37 and have not done this because we still use our Lectrasan. I am thinking of putting it under sole at the front end of the table (ours is mounted to the sole). will need to cut sole to do this. other possibility is under V-berth., but this requires routing hose thru forward cabin furniture
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Old 29-10-2010, 10:08   #35
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Just wanted to add or maybe embelish this thread a bit.

We purchased an 81 Gulfstar 44 CC after several years of studying and comparing.

You hit the nail on the head with regards to the construction techniques. From what I can learn all Gulstars prior to 1978 were laid up with the chopper gun technique. After 78 they used woven glass mat. Such is the case with our Gulfstar. In fact, the surveyor commented multiple times on the quality of the construction including the lay up of the hull.
As for sailing. Dang she's fairly quick and points great. About my only complaint is that because of the 130 Genoa we have to turn quite a bit past our desired point of sail when we tack. Once over we're able to point 30 degrees or less into the wind. The boat stands up GREAT as the wind picks up. I've had full sails up with wind gust to 30 without the boat rounding up. She's also pretty fast. This spring we participated in a regatta where we covered the 14 mile course in an uncorrected time of 1 hour and 18 minutes. I had a totally green crew but the boat didn't care. On the second day over the same course we started in the very back of the pack. Within 15 minutes we had passed the whole fleet.
Somewhere I've got a copy of an article written by Bob Perry about the Gulfstar 44. At the very end his comment was that "it's not much fun to review a boat if you can't find at least a couple of things to complain about." I've read in several places where surveyors have compared the Gulfstar 44 to the Hylas 44. I think that's a pretty sweet compliment.
Our boat has been across the Atlantic twice and as far north as Seattle before she spent several years with a previous owner in the caribbean. She's held up very well. She's a joy to sail and can be single handed. She's incredibly comfortable under sail and the cockpit is not just really big but also a great place to just hang out. I've had multiple sailors aboard that are just in awe of how easy she is to sail, how comfortable she is, what a pleasent motion she has and the comments about the joinery keep flowing. In short, at least for the Gulfstar 44, if you can pick one up that was made after 1978 you're getting an incredible bang for the buck.
If you want the final proof of how these boats are then take and look at them, you'll start to notice that owners of the Gulfstar tend to hang on to them for 20 years or more. In the end this was as much a selling point as all the other things mentioned here. Yup, I'm a very proud Papa!
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Old 29-10-2010, 13:01   #36
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Joker,

We've had a Gulfstar 37 since 2007 and the head/holding tank issue had me thinking overtime for a way to make it all work easily and adequately. I did find one solution that was tempting - another owner sourced out a holding tank that fits high and aft of the compartment over the head. Not a bad solution, and I can probably find the details (including photos) if that is of interest to you. I even went as far as to make a cardboard mockup to get a sense of size.

On the other hand we have decided to go with a compost toilet that will be installed tomorrow. I was able to get a demo (never used) model to check for fit. You will find a photo of that in this post:

Which Toilet to Buy ?

I'm am told that most couples using this head will find the "solids" needing to be emptied two or three times a year. We'll also be able to eliminate two thru holes as well as hoses and valves. The vent will fit in place of the waste pumpout fitting on deck.

Feel free to ask me more after this weekend!

Robert
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Old 29-10-2010, 14:16   #37
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the builders did a great job with the interior of the GS 37. huge chart table and galley with lots of teak. for classic boat lovers there is also a teak toerail in addition to a nice cockpit. cool boat
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Old 30-10-2010, 06:17   #38
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The only review on the 44 online seems to be my own! This kind of makes me nervous, but it is fun too. I never did dig up Bob Perry's feedback. I wish his review was up somewhere as I am sure it is much better than mine. I couldn't agree more with the Hylas 44 comparison. Did you know the 47 Hylas was inspired by the 50 Gulfstar? But I kind of doubt that German Frers thought about the 44 Gulfstar to make the 44 Hylas...something to ask him. I seatrailed and closed on a Gulfstar 44 recently. She sails sweet -- better than comparable yachts of that era...I really liked her.
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Old 12-12-2010, 09:07   #39
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Can anybody tell me the fuel and water capacity on the 1978 GS CC Ketch 50' 3 stateroom model? Tank diagram/arrangement, number of tanks. I cant find any information on the web, and they built the cabin around the tanks with minimal at best access. Thanks
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Old 12-12-2010, 10:11   #40
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200 water 100 fuel give or take a little. go to yachtworld and check the listings
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Old 12-12-2010, 10:19   #41
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glad to see some people are actually standing behind G.S. boats like many mfgs of that time they all had issues. our's is a G.S. 37 1979 and is definately a laid hull. Surveyor we used had done quite few G.S. he was originally from that area. he said the problem back then was that the crews would work for a while at a mfg get canned for coming to work drunk or not at all collecting their checks and partying then move on to the next mfg and just keep going in a circle to each mfg. this is why there was such a problem with quality. don't if it's true but seems plausible
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Old 12-12-2010, 10:59   #42
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Be wary of the listing for any boat as to fuel or water capacity. It is common for brokers to simply copy somebody's previous listing which is also a copy of somebody's previous listing, ad nausium. If you can find a owner of the same exact type/size boat you may get a good answer - otherwise, you will have to empty, then refill the tanks while metering.
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Old 12-12-2010, 13:18   #43
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osirisail every add i've seen for about 7 yrs and also a sight i saw which i cannot remember i think G.S. owners sight itself all say same for tankage with in 5-10 gals
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Old 12-12-2010, 15:51   #44
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No matter what the boat and especially Gulfstars, the different models have different tankage. My comments are from the purchase of my own Gulfstar where the Brokerage literature was off by 50% on both water and diesel.
- - Since brokers really don't have any reliable sources for manufacturers who are no longer in business, they tend to just cut and paste stuff from the listing by somebody else. There used to be a Gulfstar Owners Association which had copies of the original blueprints for the various models. But even these did not give tankage volume. I even found an ancient brochure for my 1974 boat and it had different tankage volume from what is really in the boat.
- - So just be warned that such things may or may not be accurate and if you should really want to know you need to find a current owner with the same make/model.
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Old 22-12-2011, 19:41   #45
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Re: Gulfstar

I would love to hear from anyone on comparing the GS 47 sloop with a GS 50 aux sloop. Looking at both...and wondering what the trade-offs might be. And in the 2 cabin 50 model, can the large engine room be re-engineered back into the main saloon...so you don't have all the space in the engine room (but rather back accessible for dive gear, compressor, etc)
Thanks to all.
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