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Old 27-01-2007, 13:31   #16
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Blisters isn't the worst problem because that only might happen. It's not your real concern unless you see it. Boats don't sink from blisters. You already have agreed to be the ugly boat (now see what you started). I would hold out and let someone else own the ugliest boat. You should still have some pride left after we help you spend all your money.

Any 70's boat that has not been refitted is going to take 100% electrical and anything attached. Wiring standards were just being born then. After 30 years it's probably not doing well. People didn't use much electricity back in the olden days (I might be way older than that).

replace all running and standing rigging just as a getting started. We won't even mention the sails or engine. If it's a deisel you can overhaul it on your days off to keep the cost down.

A really old used boat could sell in this range and be faced with all this as just starters and it is all very capital instensive and labor thrown in too. We are not even close to brass door knobs and hose clmps with hoses and water pumps.

I would have a hard time coming up with a boat that only needed hard work. Sounds like you need to just stick with the search and get lucky. Being lucky is still a great way to go. You might even be due.

You could learn to talk different and become southern. Sure beats NY and your expenses would just be cut a whole lot. Keep the boat you came in!
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Old 27-01-2007, 13:37   #17
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And... one final thing: Does anyone see why a fiberglass boat wouldn't last 80 to 100 years? I'd like this next boat to be my last purchase. Given that I'm looking at boats as old as I am already, they are in the 35 year range today. I'd like to use it until I'm too old to handle it, which would still be another 30-40 years off, hopefully.__________________
No one really knows as fibreglass is a fairly modern material. It has not been around for 100 years yet. A characteristic may be that at year 99 it falls to bits!
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Old 27-01-2007, 13:57   #18
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It took me three years...

It took me three years to find the boat similar to the one you describe.
The price was good because the boat was a total mess inside and all the buyers wanted something useable.
I estimated 2000 hours and $50k to get it into servicable (not cruising) condition and am still on track.
I would have thought with your outfitting skills a better option would be to keep your boat and look for work. Use a folder with photos of what you can do and go round the marinas and brokers.
In Oz they try for $A85($US67) an hour for a semi skilled worker. At $A55($US43) the good ones are unavailable.
At the moment there seem to be a lot of time poor, cash rich boat owners competing for a small number of workers (in Oz).
Or you could sail your boat to Oz, sell it and then repeat the process ad infinitum(don't forget to get your documentation squeeky clean).
If I ever sell my expectation is that I will have had a free boat but I don't expect to make any money.
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Old 27-01-2007, 14:18   #19
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Gord: Interesting point. I do have the boat I want, sans the extra offshore gear. Maybe we are being impatient? We will have to put in 3-5 years of work to pay off this boat, have some kind of meager cash set aside for retirement, and a little safety net for cruising and working (we can do both at once). But... one can also die tomorrow, so I would like to get going on cruising. The changing boats idea was my wife's this morning. She was thinking of ways to get to cruising faster. So you think the OI's would be ok? I have seen them listed in this price range I'm looking at. The ones from the early 70's are in that range.

Joli: The flaws are what I'm looking for. I feel confident enough to handle whatever repairs are necessary. That's the whole idea for me. Find a junker and do the work necessary to bring her back.

David: Our time scale would be greatly dependent on that boat itself. See, the boat is the only thing preventing us from setting off right now, or should I say the bank manager. We are sitting around working to pay this boat off and are looking at 3-5 (better than 20 to life, I guess) to work to pay this thing off. That is where the logic comes in to possibly find an ugly duckling with a broken wing that I can re-fit. The materials aren't so expensive. We figured we could do a $10K-20K refit (100% done by me, of course) and get a boat in shape.

Paul: Y'all have a good point! ha ha We're in NY right now only for the winter to make money. The pay scale is high and the dock is $2000 for the 6 months. We'll be casting off of this dock in the spring for sure.

Chris: Thank you very much. Your boat is actually one of the ones I had been considering as well. I am a bit of a fan of steel.

This whole idea may need some more thought on my end, as many of you have brought up good points. The tough part is figuring out if it's a better deal to keep the current boat, along with its 3-5 year sentence, or get a different one that we can use the equity already trapped in our current boat to pay for. See, for us... we would have equity left over that we have already paid into this boat that we could use to pay for the other boat. At that point, it's just work for the refit. Then, we could work and cruise around without the loan's financial noose arond our necks. Working and cruising in this fashion in the USA and Caribbean for 5 years would give us enough for retirement and cruising.
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Old 27-01-2007, 14:25   #20
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I took a look at the listings in GAM - a Canadian sail mag - there is a Columbia 45 listed for 35000.00 Can OBO ( about 30 K US )- it is a centre cockpit model and is stored in Florida - might be worth checking out - the contact e mail is paradox4@netscape.ca

Also in another Canadian Sailing listing at boat for sale there is a Rosborough 40 motor sailor listed for 17,000 Can - I have no idea what the boat is but the price is well within your budget and you never know....
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Old 28-01-2007, 05:39   #21
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3-5 years to sail off into the WBY with a boat you like??, maybe not so bad really??

Unless you actually want to change boats...........I wouldn't mainly as from past experiances when changing boats money does seem to dissapear along the way - money which could instead have simply been used to pay off the loan. - at least with the loan you have certainty, even if this is what is actually depressing you both! I think it would be easy to delude yourself about the real costs involved with a doer upper.

Also it sounds like you have got a boat that is "just so" and I suspect that (unless you are very lucky, which may mean having cash on hand to make a deal quickly??) you will be looking at either something smaller (35 or even 30 ish?? foot) or which will be a building site for a couple of years. Could you and more importantly the Missus! really do this........or actually want to?? especially when using her as a liveaboard when working the day jobs........it is easier to put up with smaller when sitting in the Sun, sipping a beer if this also involves not having to deal with making a living!

Also with your boat coded for charter then it may well be another source of income in the future to top up cruising funds in future years??

How about some sort of compromise on your plans? - give yourself an aim to save up enough money for "Only" 3 or 6 months cruising (to Europe?) whilst still meeting the boat payments, this may be a less depressing timescale to work towards?? And if this takes a year or so to finance you can always then decide not to actually go and put the money saved towards the boat loan. In any event if you go for a trip that is deliberately not "Forever" you may well find that your ideas and intentions change from now........even if your timescale for loan freedom day moves back.......maybe even reschedule your loan to the max period you can to minimise the required regular payments, but still aim to pay her off ASAP (either in lump sums or by regular savings), just will give you the flexibility to cruise and work according to your needs, not the Bank's..............

Whilst in many respects 3 -5 years is not long, life can change a lot during this period.........

If only sorting out my own sh#t was as easy as doing so for other folk
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Old 28-01-2007, 06:39   #22
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So true, David. It's much more simple to sort out other people's sh&t, asyou say. You know, we talked it over last night, I plugged all the numbers into the spreadsheet, and it came up that if I just spend the time it would take to completely refit the cheap boat working to pay the loan, it will end up almost a wash. We will take your plan above as the winner! ha ha. Good ideas about the flexible future and short bits of cruising interspersed with lots of work. Should be better than just 100% work. Brilliant!
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Old 28-01-2007, 07:21   #23
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Sean

Glad you came to the correct conclusion. You have the right boat and you're not the 'old' where the odds are really against you having the time to get there. Bite the bullet for a few years [the work thing] and do some local cruising and optimize the dollars for the kitty while you can. Then in a few years the plan will come together. Having the flexibility to make a boat you know really right is well worth the time.
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Old 28-01-2007, 11:20   #24
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So true, David. It's much more simple to sort out other people's sh&t, asyou say. You know, we talked it over last night, I plugged all the numbers into the spreadsheet, and it came up that if I just spend the time it would take to completely refit the cheap boat working to pay the loan, it will end up almost a wash. We will take your plan above as the winner! ha ha. Good ideas about the flexible future and short bits of cruising interspersed with lots of work. Should be better than just 100% work. Brilliant!
Following MY advice?? Oh sh#t ..........You're a braver man than me Gunga Din
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Old 28-01-2007, 11:39   #25
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Just a Little While Longer

I agree: you've invested so much in this yacht, and she's beautiful, and from what I can tell, both the kind of boat you want and a nice cruising platform. You know her inside and out. Anything else you get your hands on will require a lot of investment in time/money, because we all know you and your standards for beauty/quality.

In your sailor's heart, you really don't want a Morgan, do you?

Your Hirsh GS is closer to cruise-ready than any other you would be able to get by horse-trading, and you'd almost certainly have to go down in size, comfort, and/or displacement/performance.

I know you don't like the regular workaday world, with all it's capitalistic evils, but shifting that great work ethic of yours (which I see as your greatest resource/asset) from making this boat bristol to getting in there and generating as much income as you can, to bring the cast-off day as close as possible, seems to be the rhumb line.

You have already minimized your living expenses (boat note notwithstanding), so will be able to maximize your savings once you crank up your income. If the loan is the one cord that is holding you back, turn your energy to it, attack it with a fury, and pay it off early (that should give you a perverse pleasure from "screwing the man" by cheating him out of a healthy wad of blood-sucking interest). Once you're out from under that, the possibilities open up, yes?

Maybe you can find your own little tribe out there somewhere to set up your anarchist state, and finally be happy.

Best Wishes,
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Old 28-01-2007, 12:44   #26
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Maybe you can find your own little tribe out there somewhere to set up your anarchist state, and finally be happy.
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Old 28-01-2007, 12:47   #27
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Jeff!!! That's the coolest post I've read in ages. You certainly must know how to motivate the students, because I'm ready to follow you now!

I will very much enjoy paying much less interest to "the man" ha ha ha!! So funny.

Well, it was an exercise in futility trying to find another way to get from point A to point B. Thanks to all who participated. I'd delete the thread, but maybe there are some shreds of info in this thread that might pertain to others, so... it will stay in the archives.
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Old 28-01-2007, 18:00   #28
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I have a coworker that has a 32' fero-cement boat that is much like a westsail. He and his wife cruised on it for 6 years. It could probably be bought for somewhere in your price range. I don't know what the tankage is but I do know it has a diesel, self steering, solar pannels. Is now on Lake Texoma in Texas. If you are interested I can have him contact you if he is still wanting to sell.
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Old 28-01-2007, 19:12   #29
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Thanks for the compliment, Sean. I've always found you to be a very interesting sort. You certainly have poured enough of your soul out on this board for anyone to get to know you if he'd just paid attention.

Oh, BTW: if you did get another boat, your cast-off day would be delayed because you'd get all caught up in improving it and making it as beautiful as the Gulfstar. You know you would. lol
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