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Old 23-02-2015, 07:14   #61
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Re: Good alternative to Amel?

A couple of Amel features I think are nuts include:

1 x 900 litre fuel tank
1 x 900 litre water tank
All the grey water drains into the bilge.
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Old 23-02-2015, 08:13   #62
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Re: Good alternative to Amel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sestina View Post
A couple of Amel features I think are nuts include:

1 x 900 litre fuel tank
1 x 900 litre water tank
All the grey water drains into the bilge.
Sorry ... but the fuel tank is 600 liters in my boat and the water tank is 1000 liters.

The grey water does not go to the bilges but the "sewer". The effluents of the loo sinks, showers and galley sinks are piped into a deep holding tube in the forward of the engine and are pumped out via an electric pump or a manual gusher pump.

Works well in practice; you need to get rid of the food offal from the plates before dish washing. Not a problem and you quickly learn the good hygiene principles involved. Never smells in the boat!!! NEVER!!!
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Old 23-02-2015, 09:40   #63
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Re: Good alternative to Amel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014 View Post
:-) You are right. On Eleuthera, I've upgraded the looks and the interior. It is a work in progress and I will post pics when done. It will receive a big boost in the modernity department.

For DR SEA

If you come to Europe, the largest base for Amels, send me a PM, I can put you in contact with the 3 most knowledgeable brokers on the East side of the pond. I know each of them personally.
Hi.

I would like to see the improvements. Please take "Before and After" photos.

In general I like the interior finish (wood, styling) of the Amel boats I have seen online. They do look a bit "different" from other brands, but I think they are nice. I especially liked the Vberth I saw on several boats, as something about the placement (height) of the berths and the surrounding space made them look nicer than most boats I have seen. In fact, rather than a typical "Vberth" the Amel looks like a real "forward cabin" with head room and space for sleeping or just sitting comfortably in privacy. I like it, along with the storage around the berths.

The one thing that struck me as a bit "odd" or "different" when compared to the many "American market" boats was the master head (what appears to an American to be an unusual sink, towel rack, etc.). It is not that I think the sink is worse than the more common small stainless dog bowl sinks seen on almost every yacht that size. It is probably a better design (looks deeper and wider for practical use when the boat is heeled). I suppose that is just a matter of the "European" styling and what is more usual there may be seen as unusual on other continents. Somewhat similar to the different sink and faucet fixtures I see on boats. Some are round deep sinks in stainless, while other boats have more shallow rectangular sinks. I would prefer the deep round ones.

Overall, I like the boats very much. I would like to have one too.
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Old 23-02-2015, 09:49   #64
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Re: Good alternative to Amel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014 View Post
Sorry ... but the fuel tank is 600 liters in my boat and the water tank is 1000 liters.

The grey water does not go to the bilges but the "sewer". The effluents of the loo sinks, showers and galley sinks are piped into a deep holding tube in the forward of the engine and are pumped out via an electric pump or a manual gusher pump.

Works well in practice; you need to get rid of the food offal from the plates before dish washing. Not a problem and you quickly learn the good hygiene principles involved. Never smells in the boat!!! NEVER!!!
This all sounds ok to me. My fuel tank is 680 liters and water 1000. It's all about the right size. Some owners of my boat, which is the same size as the Amel 53, more or less, convert one water tank to fuel when they install a watermaker. 680 liters of fuel is definitely not too much; 1000 liters of water is also not to much unless perhaps you have a reliable watermaker.

It is also standard practice on big boats is to collect gray water in small holding tanks which are automatically pumped out. On the Amel, I hope that your "holding tube" is covered?
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Old 23-02-2015, 12:26   #65
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Re: Good alternative to Amel?

I especially liked the Vberth I saw on several boats, as something about the placement (height) of the berths and the surrounding space made them look nicer than most boats I have seen. In fact, rather than a typical "Vberth" the Amel looks like a real "forward cabin" with head room and space for sleeping or just sitting comfortably in privacy. I like it, along with the storage around the berths.

Obviously the forward V berth can not be compared with the after cabin but I think Amel made the most out of it and very comfortable. Also the head has full acomodations.
Since the concept does not call for crowded crews on board I think the forward section is a very nice unit.
I also like the total privacy between the after cabin and the whole forward section. Even if more than 2 guest in the forward section itīs reasonably comfortable compared to other designs of that size.
Also the capacity of the gally, freezers, salon is balanced to handling all that traffic but there is still a quiete space in the after cabin to escape.
With the big U shaped gally close to the cockpit and in the middle between the salon this makes for a uge integrated space below and on deck and from the cockpit there is still more room to escape on the sun deck on top of the after cabin. I picture myself on other boats and Iīm missing this harmonic flow of how life on board is moving. This goes both for while navigating or at the dock. I think this lay out feels great to live on board.
Looking at older boats from Amel.....they never changed the basics of that lay out and adding to that this huge engine room. The 46 foot lay out is smaller but feels the same.
From a practical point of view I have not seen any thing comparable on a mono hull.
For the looks....I asume with some dark blue paint on the hull and a little teak here and there the looks would change dramatic but that would also add on dramatic to maintanance. Well there is some maintanance on every boat but I guess the idear was to keep the slavery to a minimum and focus the energy requiered on the vital equipment and not on keeping the optics of shiny teak decors.
Makes it a lot easier to keep up with the boat. May be this is also the reason why even most of the older boats are still in good shape.
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Old 23-02-2015, 12:44   #66
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Re: Good alternative to Amel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sestina View Post
A couple of Amel features I think are nuts include:

1 x 900 litre fuel tank
1 x 900 litre water tank
All the grey water drains into the bilge.
I cannot imagine why you would think that a 900 l fuel tank and 900 l water tank is nuts.
Its the 54 that has this, our boat has 600L fuels 1000l water.
The fuel tank gives great range and the water tank, in case the watermaker breaks down, is great.
As to the grey water draining into the bilge...it doesn't actually.
All the grey water and drains from engine room, anchor locker, frig condensate go into a sump above the keel behind the water tank. The sump has an automatic pump that periodically pumps the sump out as well as a manual pump for emergency.

As to those that criticise the aesthetics, I think my Super Maramu 2000 is beautiful inside and out - beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and behind what you think you see - and after 8500 miles in the South Pacific in Elyse, she is to me the most beautiful boat.
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Old 23-02-2015, 12:46   #67
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Re: Good alternative to Amel?

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Originally Posted by warrior 90 View Post
. . .
Makes it a lot easier to keep up with the boat. May be this is also the reason why even most of the older boats are still in good shape.
I think that also comes down to the owners.

When I was buying a boat last time, I decided on an Oyster over an Amel. But interestingly, all the Amels I looked at were in lovely condition, even those which had been around the world a few times. They had good tool storage and it was obvious that all of the owners did much of their own work, and were attentive and meticulous. ALL of the Oysters, I looked at, on the other hand, had no tool storage, and basically seemed to have gotten by with the factory-supplied Heyco set (often untouched in its original plastic). It was obvious that almost none of the owners did any of their own work, and did not really notice problems until they got out of hand. They were all in terrible condition -- apparently those people would use the boats until things started to break, and then instead of fixing them up, would just trade them in on a new one. As a result of this I was simply not able to buy an Oyster -- the one I had a contract on had such a terrible survey that we couldn't agree on a price adjustment.

Of course not all Oyster owners are like that, by any means, but a good percentage of original owners, at least, judging by the ones I looked at -- and I must have seen 20 of them over more than a year.

That's a roundabout way of saying that a used Amel is a better bet than many other used boats, judging by the ones I saw, and considering that they are generally quite a bit cheaper than "high end" boats like HR, Contest, Oyster, etc. -- well, that makes them a really good buy, in my opinion, if you can stand the aesthetics and layout.
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Old 23-02-2015, 13:04   #68
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Re: Good alternative to Amel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
Hi.

I would like to see the improvements. Please take "Before and After" photos.

In general I like the interior finish (wood, styling) of the Amel boats I have seen online. They do look a bit "different" from other brands, but I think they are nice. I especially liked the Vberth I saw on several boats, as something about the placement (height) of the berths and the surrounding space made them look nicer than most boats I have seen. In fact, rather than a typical "Vberth" the Amel looks like a real "forward cabin" with head room and space for sleeping or just sitting comfortably in privacy. I like it, along with the storage around the berths.

The one thing that struck me as a bit "odd" or "different" when compared to the many "American market" boats was the master head (what appears to an American to be an unusual sink, towel rack, etc.). It is not that I think the sink is worse than the more common small stainless dog bowl sinks seen on almost every yacht that size. It is probably a better design (looks deeper and wider for practical use when the boat is heeled). I suppose that is just a matter of the "European" styling and what is more usual there may be seen as unusual on other continents. Somewhat similar to the different sink and faucet fixtures I see on boats. Some are round deep sinks in stainless, while other boats have more shallow rectangular sinks. I would prefer the deep round ones.

Overall, I like the boats very much. I would like to have one too.
Hello Steady Hand,

The Amels are not without wrinkles... one of them is the forward V berth. I had a crew who was 6'-2"... he could not fit lengthwise. Oh well...

The sinks are an Amel thing... they are deep so as not to spill when someone tends to their ablutions. Very effective I may add.

I'll consider placing some pics after the works are completed... feels a bit like bragging to me but I'll think about it.

Cheers
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Old 23-02-2015, 13:16   #69
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Re: Good alternative to Amel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I think that also comes down to the owners.

When I was buying a boat last time, I decided on an Oyster over an Amel. But interestingly, all the Amels I looked at were in lovely condition, even those which had been around the world a few times. They had good tool storage and it was obvious that all of the owners did much of their own work, and were attentive and meticulous. ALL of the Oysters, I looked at, on the other hand, had no tool storage, and basically seemed to have gotten by with the factory-supplied Heyco set (often untouched in its original plastic). It was obvious that almost none of the owners did any of their own work, and did not really notice problems until they got out of hand. They were all in terrible condition -- apparently those people would use the boats until things started to break, and then instead of fixing them up, would just trade them in on a new one. As a result of this I was simply not able to buy an Oyster -- the one I had a contract on had such a terrible survey that we couldn't agree on a price adjustment.

Of course not all Oyster owners are like that, by any means, but a good percentage of original owners, at least, judging by the ones I looked at -- and I must have seen 20 of them over more than a year.

That's a roundabout way of saying that a used Amel is a better bet than many other used boats, judging by the ones I saw, and considering that they are generally quite a bit cheaper than "high end" boats like HR, Contest, Oyster, etc. -- well, that makes them a really good buy, in my opinion, if you can stand the aesthetics and layout.

I too came close to an Oyster. But we could not agree on price as the boat was in a terrible state... my offer was for 50% of the asking...

I completely agree with your assessment of Amel owners and this contributed to my eventual purchase.. The Owner's group is extremely knowledgeable as befits a community of circumnavigators.

My boat needed lots of TLC to bring it to my standard but we'll sail RTW in peace and quiet.
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Old 23-02-2015, 13:49   #70
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Re: Good alternative to Amel?

All a question of trade offs.
In general there might also be other reasons of doing some service by yourself. In some places You just might not find a qualified service and then You might rely on repairing it Yourself.
If You want to get it fixed ?
Usually this is called service friendly
Yes they are quiete cheaper even so the qualities standards used are very high end.
High end boats and a high end price are two different terms for me. I look more at values in regards to use.
Comparing to HR Contest and Oyster as high end mixed with estetics and lay out
I guess here we come back to the basics....a pure cruising yacht
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Old 23-02-2015, 14:26   #71
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Re: Good alternative to Amel?

I actually have grown to like the looks of Amels and so many of the included features make great sense. Lots of sort of funky features at first glance that make good sense once you understand them better (I'm an engineer to I appreciate stuff like that more than most.), but I just can't get by that bulkhead mounted steering wheel on the left side of the cockpit. As has been mentioned, it's great for offshore work and watchkeeping, but when you're out just to have a fun sail, even if you're not a racer, it's nice to be able to see down the leeward side of your boat and to also see the sails well enough to trim them. A big wheel mounted on centerline or 2 wheels allow you to sit on the respective cockpit coaming to allow this as you tack, but an offset from centerline, bulkhead mounted wheel does not, or at least not for 50% of the time when you're on the "wrong" tack or are forced to approach a dock on the "wrong" side of the boat. I understand the practicality of it while motoring or offshore, but to me, it just doesn't seem like it's good for sailing. Also, for most of the times when a protected steering station is desirable, you're going to be on autopilot and not using that bulkhead mounted wheel anyway. So, any good cruising boat with a hard dodger and a curtain behind it to hold the heat in will keep you protected from the elements as you steer the boat with your autopilot remote control. It's easy to rig a pretty comfortable, removable seat in the companionway for offshore watchkeeping, then when it's a glorious sailing day in nice weather, you can use your position at your centerline wheel and have fun! Yes, this is a "cruisers forum" but part of cruising is having fun sailing while out for a romp around the bay and I don't think the Amel's are set up very well for the "day sailing" part of cruising. But I do think they are fantastic cruising boats and, bought used, are a very good value, but only for people who don't think like I do about being able to see down both sides of the boat and both sides of the sails from the helm position.
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Old 23-02-2015, 15:31   #72
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Re: Good alternative to Amel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
This all sounds ok to me. My fuel tank is 680 liters and water 1000. It's all about the right size. Some owners of my boat, which is the same size as the Amel 53, more or less, convert one water tank to fuel when they install a watermaker. 680 liters of fuel is definitely not too much; 1000 liters of water is also not to much unless perhaps you have a reliable watermaker.

It is also standard practice on big boats is to collect gray water in small holding tanks which are automatically pumped out. On the Amel, I hope that your "holding tube" is covered?
Hello Dockhead,

There is no need to cover the "sewer" as it is located in the engine bay and it is totally isolated from the living areas of the boat. I drop in a bleach tablet once a month and occasionally use my wet/dry to suck out all the "grunge"..... normally not much...
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Old 23-02-2015, 16:52   #73
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Re: Good alternative to Amel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
I actually have grown to like the looks of Amels and so many of the included features make great sense. Lots of sort of funky features at first glance that make good sense once you understand them better (I'm an engineer to I appreciate stuff like that more than most.), but I just can't get by that bulkhead mounted steering wheel on the left side of the cockpit. As has been mentioned, it's great for offshore work and watchkeeping, but when you're out just to have a fun sail, even if you're not a racer, it's nice to be able to see down the leeward side of your boat and to also see the sails well enough to trim them. A big wheel mounted on centerline or 2 wheels allow you to sit on the respective cockpit coaming to allow this as you tack, but an offset from centerline, bulkhead mounted wheel does not, or at least not for 50% of the time when you're on the "wrong" tack or are forced to approach a dock on the "wrong" side of the boat. I understand the practicality of it while motoring or offshore, but to me, it just doesn't seem like it's good for sailing. Also, for most of the times when a protected steering station is desirable, you're going to be on autopilot and not using that bulkhead mounted wheel anyway. So, any good cruising boat with a hard dodger and a curtain behind it to hold the heat in will keep you protected from the elements as you steer the boat with your autopilot remote control. It's easy to rig a pretty comfortable, removable seat in the companionway for offshore watchkeeping, then when it's a glorious sailing day in nice weather, you can use your position at your centerline wheel and have fun! Yes, this is a "cruisers forum" but part of cruising is having fun sailing while out for a romp around the bay and I don't think the Amel's are set up very well for the "day sailing" part of cruising. But I do think they are fantastic cruising boats and, bought used, are a very good value, but only for people who don't think like I do about being able to see down both sides of the boat and both sides of the sails from the helm position.

I enjoyed reading your comments above. I offer mine with a friendly tone of voice.

Unfortunately I don't own an Amel, so my remarks may be simply taken as another opinion from someone who is not an "owner" and with a splash of saltwater. But I would like to own an Amel, and have given them a lot of study and thought.

While I understand your POV, and at one time wondered the same things (or felt the same way), I no longer share that view.

Why?
Because I thought of the tradeoffs and the adaptability of how I work and sail too.

For example: I drive a car with a steering wheel on one side of the vehicle. After practicing with it, I am very comfortable steering it where I want it to go, including parking in tight spots. This comes from spatial awareness, familiarity with the vehicle and practice, of course. I think it would be the same for steering the boat that has the wheel mounted on the forward bulkhead (Amel).

Looking at the Amel cockpit and helm, I think it would obviously be "different" but I am sure I would be able to adapt and would enjoy sailing and controlling the boat from that cockpit and steering with that wheel.

I also like the center cockpit POV of the boat. Others will not, but I do.

And, as a matter of taste, I don't care for the huge wheels seen on some "racer-cruisers." The advent of smaller "twin wheels" seems much more practical given the wider aft sections of newer boats.

Also, up above you wrote:
"Also, for most of the times when a protected steering station is desirable, you're going to be on autopilot and not using that bulkhead mounted wheel anyway."
I disagree with your point.

As I see it, it is precisely when the weather is its worst and sea conditions are risky that I will be ON the wheel, and NOT on autopilot. In those conditions, I would highly value the position the Amel wheel is in, rather than being exposed in a typical wheel position.

Being 8 feet behind a typical dodger in the typical wheel position of a typical boat still leaves the helmsman exposed to wind, rain, and spray. I know, because I have gotten soaked in a storm while at the helm.

Luckily we don't all have to own the same style of boat.
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Old 23-02-2015, 17:00   #74
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Re: Good alternative to Amel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
I actually have grown to like the looks of Amels and so many of the included features make great sense. Lots of sort of funky features at first glance that make good sense once you understand them better (I'm an engineer to I appreciate stuff like that more than most.), but I just can't get by that bulkhead mounted steering wheel on the left side of the cockpit. As has been mentioned, it's great for offshore work and watchkeeping, but when you're out just to have a fun sail, even if you're not a racer, it's nice to be able to see down the leeward side of your boat and to also see the sails well enough to trim them. A big wheel mounted on centerline or 2 wheels allow you to sit on the respective cockpit coaming to allow this as you tack, but an offset from centerline, bulkhead mounted wheel does not, or at least not for 50% of the time when you're on the "wrong" tack or are forced to approach a dock on the "wrong" side of the boat. I understand the practicality of it while motoring or offshore, but to me, it just doesn't seem like it's good for sailing. Also, for most of the times when a protected steering station is desirable, you're going to be on autopilot and not using that bulkhead mounted wheel anyway. So, any good cruising boat with a hard dodger and a curtain behind it to hold the heat in will keep you protected from the elements as you steer the boat with your autopilot remote control. It's easy to rig a pretty comfortable, removable seat in the companionway for offshore watchkeeping, then when it's a glorious sailing day in nice weather, you can use your position at your centerline wheel and have fun! Yes, this is a "cruisers forum" but part of cruising is having fun sailing while out for a romp around the bay and I don't think the Amel's are set up very well for the "day sailing" part of cruising. But I do think they are fantastic cruising boats and, bought used, are a very good value, but only for people who don't think like I do about being able to see down both sides of the boat and both sides of the sails from the helm position.
To the helm station...compare a steering wheel on a post with the electronics mounted to a big protected dash board with all controls and instruments integrated and plenty of space for all Your little things that are comfortable having.....books,maps,sunglasses, a drink or Your complete dinner, everything You donīt want on the seats or floor,everything You donīt want to get up for.
There is also a very nice side effect wich Amel later in the Super Maramu tried to integrate a lot better. From the gally You have excelent access to all the controls and electronics of the helm station.
As to the steering wheel I really donīt know if that size has anything to do with better control while I would also question this subject in general on many other boats. So letīs keep it there for the fancy looks. Also have to admit that it satisfies my romantic desires. Specially the white one on the 2000 I find a very pleasing design
As to sailing...Amels are not designed for exciting day sailing
No compromise...only pure long range cruising. Think about +10 days 24 hours in all weather conditions and compare. Thatīs not so much about sailing and racing and being the first one anymore. After 1-2 days with Your turns on the watch You donīt get much fun out of continous tacking anymore. Thatīs more about crossing ocean, covering long distances, different time zones and climates.That needs more than a dodger for max comfort. You want to be out of the elements be it rain, wind or full sun exposure. The total solution is a pilot house but then You have to go outside all the time. So this kind of a convertible is a very nice in between and makes space usefull.
Thatīs also where all them little details around You gain a lot of value.
Allways makes me think... heavy corian plates in gally and the head for the looks while on the other side 2 steering station for better performance.

I also think if Your use is not for the concept this boats is designed for itīs difficult to apreciate. I like the concept because itīs the closest to my idear wich is long range cruising and live a board full time.
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Old 23-02-2015, 20:29   #75
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Re: Good alternative to Amel?

I just watched this (2013) Yachting Monthly video on the latest (2011-) Amel 55.

While I was somewhat familiar with the older Super Maramu and Maramu, this new boat the Amel 55, is simply "AWESOME."

The very good walkthrough review by Yachting magazine shows how many aspects of the boat are carefully designed for ease of use by a couple while long-distance cruising. The staterooms look VERY comfortable and the saloon looks very comfortable too. The boat has in the words of the reviewer "TONS" of storage throughout the boat above and below decks. A very impressive boat for this size.

The video shows the boat being sailed in up to 30 knots of wind under FULL sail (Ketch rig) and it looks great sailing. The reviewer mentions as the end of the video that despite the wind, the boat was easy to sail (fingertip control) and very comfortable at the helm position. Speaking of that helm, he really likes the helm and cockpit and windscreen.



Yachting World's video is shorter and different, but again mentions how comfortable the helmsman is while at the helm despite the 20+ knots of wind.

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Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
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