Git a new Albin Vega; Advice on Equipment ?

[KetoNomad]

Well, I will become the official owner of the boat in late July and the current owner has done an excellent job of outfitting the boat for coastal cruising but it's kitted out with 240volt shore power and a tiny flexible solar panel. Since I am Canadian and will (eventually) sail the boat back to British Columbia via Peru (not the Panama Canal) this will not be enough.

How much do you figure I will need to spend on solar panels and controllers etc? all the lights are LED already and I'll be using a windvane self-steering system but probably using the stereo for at least 90 minutes a day and a small chart plotter while I am awake as well as AIS and VHF. On that note, I saw some AIS/VHF combo units that looked like they might be a good idea for a boat as small as the Vega, anyone have any thoughts on these? During the daytime I will be on deck keeping an attentive eye on my surroundings but at night I'll be wanting that wake up call should I be in danger of becoming a speed bump.

A freezer would be nice eventually but I'm guessing that just jacks up the cost and complication factor of everything aboard so it'll probably have to wait. I'll only have 50 to 60 thousand CAD by the time I shove off so I'd rather save that for food.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by KetoNomad

Well, I will become the official owner of the boat in late July and the current owner has done an excellent job of outfitting the boat for coastal cruising but it's kitted out with 240volt shore power and a tiny flexible solar panel. Since I am Canadian and will (eventually) sail the boat back to British Columbia via Peru (not the Panama Canal) this will not be enough.

How much do you figure I will need to spend on solar panels and controllers etc? all the lights are LED already and I'll be using a windvane self-steering system but probably using the stereo for at least 90 minutes a day and a small chart plotter while I am awake as well as AIS and VHF. On that note, I saw some AIS/VHF combo units that looked like they might be a good idea for a boat as small as the Vega, anyone have any thoughts on these? During the daytime I will be on deck keeping an attentive eye on my surroundings but at night I'll be wanting that wake up call should I be in danger of becoming a speed bump.

A freezer would be nice eventually but I'm guessing that just jacks up the cost and complication factor of everything aboard so it'll probably have to wait. I'll only have 50 to 60 thousand CAD by the time I shove off so I'd rather save that for food.

Where is the boat lying now? What is your total route to BC? What's your schedule?

So for Peru and Ecuador 240v volt is good, north of there it's all 110v. If you outfit for cruising, you should have plenty of solar and then you don't need shore power until you can get to BC.

So all the lights have been converted to LED. Deck, navigation and cabin? Do you have spares for the bulbs?

What batteries are on the boat? Figure you need 250-350amp-hr storage. Figure about 200w of solar panels. That means you will need a 20amp minimum controller. For such a small system MPPT has no advantage over PWM so go with that, but don't go with the cheapest one available on Amazon or Ebay. Renogy maybe. Figure $1000 total including batteries, panels, controller, battery boxes, switches, fuse panel, wiring, etc but not mounting.

Bare minimum electronics you need:
Depth sounder.
GPS
Shortwave radio that receives SSB.
Laptop with GPS dongle

Highly desirable would be:
VHF
Small autopilot
AIS

A transmitting AIS will set you back an extra $600-900 compared to the marginal cost to adding a receive only option to a VHF. There will be the AIS, cabling, display, separate antenna and a few other things I can't think of off hand.

You have to have a magnetic ship's compass, you can't rely on GPS alone. And not an electronic fluxgate compass either.

You need a dodger. You really will want a bimini for the tropics but can get by without.

What's the motor situation on the boat? What is the installed fuel tankage? How big an alternator is on the engine?

I assume you have either a trysail or a 3rd reef in the main. Do you have a storm jib?

Cruising is an endurance sport not a speed sport so a regular symmetrical chute won't cut it cruising unless you have more than a couple on board. Do you have a drifter, an asymmetrical chute or a CodeZero? If the boat doesn't have one of these already I would go with the drifter for price. Does the boat have a spinnaker pole? Even if you don't have a spinnaker the pole will allow you to pole out jibs, genoas and drifters for broad reaching and running.

What do you have for anchoring gear? I would take as a minimum 2-100' & 2-30' lengths of 1/4" G43 chain, a chain stopper, a bow roller, stainless or monel seizing wire, shackles, a couple of swivels, plus anchors.
For primary anchor a Mantus/Supreme/Rocna around 25lb.
For secondary a Fortress FX-37 or -23 for soft mud and ultimate holding in a hurricane.
For a backup primary I would get a 25lb Delta or Bruce.
If I was feeling flush I would get a 40lb Luke for Rock and weeds.

What's the water tankage situation? Are you going to get a watermaker? Are you going to collect rain water?

If you install a decent solar/battery system you can get a fridge/freezer. I would get an Engle for preference. What are you going to put in the freezer? If it were me it would be a bunch of frozen bacon, some ice cube trays so I can make cold drinks, cheeses, any fish that I've caught so I can stretch it out.

What's the dinghy situation?

You need to get and read "Cruising on a Small Income" by Annie Hill. After that bug me and I'll come up with a longer reading list.

[Jim Cate]

For a singlehander on a small yacht, I'd put an AIS transceiver high on the list. If you alert ships to your presence, even when asleep as you will be some hours each day, they will for t he most part avoid you. If you have receive only AIS, YOU need to be able to take avoiding action.

Otherwise, Adelie's list is a good starting point.

Jim

PS You planning to drag your boat across the Andes llike Tristan did? Gotta be a better way...

[KetoNomad]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Where is the boat lying now? What is your total route to BC? What's your schedule?

So for Peru and Ecuador 240v volt is good, north of there it's all 110v. If you outfit for cruising, you should have plenty of solar and then you don't need shore power until you can get to BC.

So all the lights have been converted to LED. Deck, navigation and cabin? Do you have spares for the bulbs?

What batteries are on the boat? Figure you need 250-350amp-hr storage. Figure about 200w of solar panels. That means you will need a 20amp minimum controller. For such a small system MPPT has no advantage over PWM so go with that, but don't go with the cheapest one available on Amazon or Ebay. Renogy maybe. Figure $1000 total including batteries, panels, controller, battery boxes, switches, fuse panel, wiring, etc but not mounting.

Bare minimum electronics you need:
Depth sounder.
GPS
Shortwave radio that receives SSB.
Laptop with GPS dongle

Highly desirable would be:
VHF
Small autopilot
AIS

A transmitting AIS will set you back an extra $600-900 compared to the marginal cost to adding a receive only option to a VHF. There will be the AIS, cabling, display, separate antenna and a few other things I can't think of off hand.

You have to have a magnetic ship's compass, you can't rely on GPS alone. And not an electronic fluxgate compass either.

You need a dodger. You really will want a bimini for the tropics but can get by without.

What's the motor situation on the boat? What is the installed fuel tankage? How big an alternator is on the engine?

I assume you have either a trysail or a 3rd reef in the main. Do you have a storm jib?

Cruising is an endurance sport not a speed sport so a regular symmetrical chute won't cut it cruising unless you have more than a couple on board. Do you have a drifter, an asymmetrical chute or a CodeZero? If the boat doesn't have one of these already I would go with the drifter for price. Does the boat have a spinnaker pole? Even if you don't have a spinnaker the pole will allow you to pole out jibs, genoas and drifters for broad reaching and running.

What do you have for anchoring gear? I would take as a minimum 2-100' & 2-30' lengths of 1/4" G43 chain, a chain stopper, a bow roller, stainless or monel seizing wire, shackles, a couple of swivels, plus anchors.
For primary anchor a Mantus/Supreme/Rocna around 25lb.
For secondary a Fortress FX-37 or -23 for soft mud and ultimate holding in a hurricane.
For a backup primary I would get a 25lb Delta or Bruce.
If I was feeling flush I would get a 40lb Luke for Rock and weeds.

What's the water tankage situation? Are you going to get a watermaker? Are you going to collect rain water?

If you install a decent solar/battery system you can get a fridge/freezer. I would get an Engle for preference. What are you going to put in the freezer? If it were me it would be a bunch of frozen bacon, some ice cube trays so I can make cold drinks, cheeses, any fish that I've caught so I can stretch it out.

What's the dinghy situation?

You need to get and read "Cruising on a Small Income" by Annie Hill. After that bug me and I'll come up with a longer reading list.

Hey thanks for the lengthy reply!

I'm not sure what there are for spares or batteries aboard, I'm going on the assumption the batteries will need to be replaced before casting off and if that's not the case then great!

The boat's got a Garmin Chart Plotter so I guess I'll just get the G2 charts for it, they've been pretty decent in Canada, there're also compases on either side of the companionway in the cockpit which is pretty awesome IMO (the guy that kitted this out was on my wavelength). Yanmar 1gm engine (1998) well cared for; looks like i could eat off of it and the engine compartment's immaculate. Stock fuel tank though, so I guess jerry cans are in order.

The boat also has depth sounder and and wind speed/direction indicator. 3rd reef and a storm jib yes. Only a symetrical spinnaker, though. I will probably have to make-do without any other sails as it takes weeks to get new ones made and I probably won't want to waste a lot of time in Europe if I want to cross the pond by December/January. Time will tell.

There's only an old 30 lbs CQR anchor aboard with 100' of chain and about the same of rode. I will get a few 150' lines before casting off. I'm also going to go with a 45lb Mantus and might get a bigger one for storms.

With a freezer I'd fill it with meat. Bacon's always nice or beef steaks, I don't think I'm going to have a freezer though, seems like the kind of thing that'd require a custom mount for the panels etc. I'll wait 'til I have more experience living off of SPAM and canned tuna to see if it's worthwhile.

I'm a bit leery of buying another book about cruising that's not some sort of technical manual. "Buy this book to learn how to cruise cheap" seems kind of to be missing the point, what's the book going to tell me that's worth the cost of the book? I plan to anchor out as much as possible and avoid restaurants. I also can't bring a lot of books with me. Everything I own will have to come on the plane in two duffel bags

Do you know where I can find fee info for all the countries? I've herad Noonsite but all I could find there was general info on the countries nothing about how much it costs to enter/cruise there :S

[KetoNomad]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

For a singlehander on a small yacht, I'd put an AIS transceiver high on the list. If you alert ships to your presence, even when asleep as you will be some hours each day, they will for t he most part avoid you. If you have receive only AIS, YOU need to be able to take avoiding action.

Otherwise, Adelie's list is a good starting point.

Jim

PS You planning to drag your boat across the Andes llike Tristan did? Gotta be a better way...

Agreed, I'll definitely be installing AIS.

Sure, I could carry a bivy sack but you can't beat curling up in the v berth after a long day of lugging a boat up a hill All you squares probably think boating is for water only, haha.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by KetoNomad

Agreed, I'll definitely be installing AIS.

After many miles offshore singlehanded I really really wouldn't want to out there without a radar with timed transmission (sleep mode) and a LOUD alarm. (And AIS)

Also for nav a raspberry pi running openplotter is cheap both in price and power, the watchdog plugin has a selection of useful alarms plus it can decode weatherfax from the likes of a degen 1103 ssb receiver.

[gjordan]

The engine you have sips fuel, so you might not want to put too many clumsy solar panels on the boat. A reasonable amount of solar and run your engine every few days to keep things topped up. If your stove is propane, do you have the needed plumbing fixtures to bypass the solenoid in the event of a power failure? A head rebuilding kit, rebuild kits for the manual water pump, enough kerosene lights to get by without electricity, a water catching awning, spare parts for whatever type of windvane you have? Double down on making sure your windvane is in good shape because other than keeping the water out and the rig up, the vane will be the most important thing on a passage. Dont worry about the time to have a sail loft build you a drifter, there are plenty of reliable used sail outfits that should have a drifter close to what size you need. Any drifter is better than no drifter. If you dont want to take the time/money to make a bimini, then sew up a square piece of sunbrella that you can attach to your dodger and have a light weight pole attached across your backstay to keep some shade in the cockpit. Attach it all with shockcord so if you have to maneuver quickly it wont interfere. Baking in the sun takes a lot out of a person and being below in a small boat in the tropics is not a lot of fun. I have never heard of a 30 lb CQR, only 25 and 35. If it is a 25 that is what is recommended for your size boat, if it is a 35, it is a decent storm anchor. When used properly they work fine, but many people on this forum bad mouth them. Have at least 2 other hooks, one should be light enough to be able to row out in an inflatable and another as backup for your main hook. I would have to re-read your post, but I think you mentioned 100 foot rodes. I would think you want 200 on your primary and at least another 200 foot piece. Anything less than 1/2 inch rode gets tough on the hands when pulling hard. I cruised for several years on a 26 foot boat and along the way tossed some of the gear that I originally thought I needed and picked up things/ideas that I saw working on other boats. I am sure you will get lots of advice here. Good Luck, ____Grant.

[toddster8]

There are two ways to look at this.
1) Add up a power budget in amp-hours for all the toys that you'd like to have, then buy that many panels and batteries.
2) Figure out how many solar panels (and batteries) that you can actually cram on a small boat like that, then subtract the power requirements of essential gear until there's nothing left, then stop buying toys.

I fear that the effects of a 500W solar arch on the sailing ability of a 27-foot boat will be significantly larger than for a 35-footer or larger.

[gjordan]

Solar panels and batteries are getting smaller and better as time goes by but you have a very tiny amount of deck space for panels and if you dont think you have time to get a sail built, I doubt you will want to wait (and the amount of money) to get an arch built. An arch might also interfere with your vane, and having done long ocean passages in a smaller boat than yours, I can safely say that your windvane is far more important than electricity. On a minimum boat you need enough solar for a masthead LED light, occasional use of a compass light and your AIS. You dont need a chart plotter on a passage, and a $99 hand held GPS and a few paper charts will get you across any ocean. Many people on this forum ask the question "Is my boat ready for a passage" and I frequently answer with the recommendation to go out and anchor for a few days with the main battery switch turned off. Can you still get water out of your tanks, can you still cook hot food, does your head still work(I doubt you have an electric head) is there enough light down below to function at night (kerosene lights?), can you navigate (paper charts and hand held GPS). If your boat (of any size) cant function with Zero electricity, then your boat is not functional. That is not to say that you need to live like a caveman, but you need to plan to have the basics (backups) to function if your electricity goes to hell. More toys = more maintenance/cost and less time sailing. _____Grant.

[KetoNomad]

Originally Posted by gjordan

Solar panels and batteries are getting smaller and better as time goes by but you have a very tiny amount of deck space for panels and if you dont think you have time to get a sail built, I doubt you will want to wait (and the amount of money) to get an arch built. An arch might also interfere with your vane, and having done long ocean passages in a smaller boat than yours, I can safely say that your windvane is far more important than electricity. On a minimum boat you need enough solar for a masthead LED light, occasional use of a compass light and your AIS. You dont need a chart plotter on a passage, and a $99 hand held GPS and a few paper charts will get you across any ocean. Many people on this forum ask the question "Is my boat ready for a passage" and I frequently answer with the recommendation to go out and anchor for a few days with the main battery switch turned off. Can you still get water out of your tanks, can you still cook hot food, does your head still work(I doubt you have an electric head) is there enough light down below to function at night (kerosene lights?), can you navigate (paper charts and hand held GPS). If your boat (of any size) cant function with Zero electricity, then your boat is not functional. That is not to say that you need to live like a caveman, but you need to plan to have the basics (backups) to function if your electricity goes to hell. More toys = more maintenance/cost and less time sailing. _____Grant.

I was actually hoping to attach some panels to the sides of the pushpit like they've done on SV RAN (on YouTube). Seems like a better system than the standard fixed arch for its adjustability and reduced windage. I also prefer to keep the boat looking fairly like it did when it rolled out of the factory, a solar arch would be unsightly, hamper performance and reduce headspace in the one area on the boat where I can stand up straight, no thanks. Got any high quality, small solar panel recommendations?

I will bring a headlamp and the stove is just a camp stove that hooks up to 1 litre propane bottles and I'll bring my multi-fuel backpacking stove as a spare. Manual pumps for water and sea toilet so all good there. Oh and I have a handheld GPS that runs the same charts as the chartplotter so all should be fine. Really only "need" the masthead light, VHF and AIS for part of the day so I guess needs are small.

Sounds like we have the same opinion on toys aboard, less is more sometimes.

[bobnlesley]

Lots of good advice but as a Vega owner for ten years if you're aiming to cross oceans my two-pennorth would be:

Forget the bimini, the Vega's boom's too low, wear a big hat whilst sailing, then make up an over-boom sun awning for when you're in anchorages.

Check to see it the main bulkhead's been reinforced under the mast step, if not, fit a support beam now before you head out into the big-blue.
If the rigging's been recently renewed then live with it, but if it's on the list for renewal then upsize the wires to 6mm.
The saloon windows are a 'concern' being secured within their openings just by their rubber seals, if the budget's healthy, there's a very nice stainless steel frame kit available through the British(and probably other) Vega Owners Club. If the budget's tighter, then you just could buy some oversized polycarbonate or lexan windows and screw/seal those to the fibreglass. If the budget's real tight, then make up some plywood storm-panels with timber strongbacks and either fit them in advance or stow them handily just in case the big seas pop a window on you.

[KetoNomad]

Originally Posted by bobnlesley

Lots of good advice but as a Vega owner for ten years if you're aiming to cross oceans my two-pennorth would be:

Forget the bimini, the Vega's boom's too low, wear a big hat whilst sailing, then make up an over-boom sun awning for when you're in anchorages.

Check to see it the main bulkhead's been reinforced under the mast step, if not, fit a support beam now before you head out into the big-blue.
If the rigging's been recently renewed then live with it, but if it's on the list for renewal then upsize the wires to 6mm.
The saloon windows are a 'concern' being secured within their openings just by their rubber seals, if the budget's healthy, there's a very nice stainless steel frame kit available through the British(and probably other) Vega Owners Club. If the budget's tighter, then you just could buy some oversized polycarbonate or lexan windows and screw/seal those to the fibreglass. If the budget's real tight, then make up some plywood storm-panels with timber strongbacks and either fit them in advance or stow them handily just in case the big seas pop a window on you.

Thanks for the advice! The current owner has replaced the mast support beam with two 40mm beams on either side of the bulkhead, put some nice looking aluminium framed windows in the saloon with fat flanges, replaced all seacocks with high quality plastic ones. The standing rigging was replaced in 2013 with 5mm so I will sail conservatively.

Yep I've heard the same thing about the biminis on Vegas and I'm 2.03m tall so I'll be packing my wide brimmed hat, haha

Do you have a windvane self steering gear? Im thinking of getting the Wind Pilot Pacific Light. Heard it's good.

[Kelkara]

Regarding solar panels ... on a 27ft boat you've really got to figure out where you will put them first, then you probably just want to put in the max that will fit in the space. I have a 20W rigid panel permanently mounted over the companionway hatch, but that doesn't provide much power. I also have 2x50W semi flexible panels that I just lash down wherever they get sun. The best place is on top of the dinghy on the foredeck, but if I'm using the dinghy they can be moved elsewhere. Also easy to bring inside if strong wind is forecast. Its a nice flexible solution since nowhere is particularly good for a large panel permanently mounted.

[KetoNomad]

Originally Posted by Kelkara

Regarding solar panels ... on a 27ft boat you've really got to figure out where you will put them first, then you probably just want to put in the max that will fit in the space. I have a 20W rigid panel permanently mounted over the companionway hatch, but that doesn't provide much power. I also have 2x50W semi flexible panels that I just lash down wherever they get sun. The best place is on top of the dinghy on the foredeck, but if I'm using the dinghy they can be moved elsewhere. Also easy to bring inside if strong wind is forecast. Its a nice flexible solution since nowhere is particularly good for a large panel permanently mounted.

Yes I've thought of doing that wirh the movable panels, do you cruise offshore like that? What are your power needs? Your boat looks vaguely familiar, what is it? Probably similar in size to a Vega, right? Did you come across mounts for your pushpit when you were shopping? I like that idea so long as the angle of the panels can be changed easily.

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by KetoNomad

Yes I've thought of doing that wirh the movable panels, do you cruise offshore like that? What are your power needs? Your boat looks vaguely familiar, what is it? Probably similar in size to a Vega, right? Did you come across mounts for your pushpit when you were shopping? I like that idea so long as the angle of the panels can be changed easily.

My boat is slightly heavier than a Vega, but still 27ft long. There just isn't sensible space on my pushpit to mount panels this size, at least not with everything else cluttering up the back of the boat. It's surprising how big a solar panel of any wattage actually is on a small boat. I've not been offshore yet, I'm working my way up the inside passage. My power needs are very modest ... but sunshine is in short supply up here too.

As I said lashed on top of the dinghy on the foredeck has less exposure to shading, but even on the coachroof they can put out reasonable power in good sunshine.

ps congratulations on the new boat.